Sig P365

[cargaritaville]

I found one on GB for $599.00 & just ordered the Sig holster from Optics Planet.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/sig-sauer-blackpoint-tactical-p365-appendix-carry-holster.html

[Griff]

Let me know what you think about the holster.

[cargaritaville]

Holster came in today...iwb. eBay was the only game around...everyone else backordered. Been wearing it for about 3 hours. You forget its even on.

[Buffalo]

Has anyone done a side-by-side size comparison with the R9?

Just curious.

[Griff]

Has anyone done a side-by-side size comparison with the R9?

Just curious.

Good question.  I haven't seen anything, and would guess that because the Rohrbaugh is out of production, that it is unlikely for a pro gun-writer to do one.
I did take pictures of my Rohrbaugh next to my P365 to post on here but could not get it to work.  Sorry.

My opinion:
I have compared and shot them side by side, and they are different beasts.

The Rohrbaugh is a pocket pistol that disappears in the pocket, the Sig is a serious lump, and at the limit of pocketable. 
They both have superior triggers, with the Sig being lighter.

The Sig, with the 12 round magazine shoots like a full size gun, has great sights, and feels rugged.
The Rohrbaugh, while very mechanically accurate, is hard to make long shots with.

I have gotten to the point that I don't shoot the Rohrbaugh much at all, because It is somewhat irreplaceable.

I think the Sig is more comparable to guns like the Glock 43, but slightly smaller, while carrying more rounds of ammo.  I like my Glocks, but think Sig has a game changer with this one. 

I bet that there are engineers at lots of different manufacturers burning the midnight oil trying to get their own version of the 365 designed.

 

[MRC]

Has anyone done a side-by-side size comparison with the R9?

Just curious.

Good question.  I haven't seen anything, and would guess that because the Rohrbaugh is out of production, that it is unlikely for a pro gun-writer to do one.
I did take pictures of my Rohrbaugh next to my P365 to post on here but could not get it to work.  Sorry.

My opinion:
I have compared and shot them side by side, and they are different beasts.

The Rohrbaugh is a pocket pistol that disappears in the pocket, the Sig is a serious lump, and at the limit of pocketable. 
They both have superior triggers, with the Sig being lighter.

The Sig, with the 12 round magazine shoots like a full size gun, has great sights, and feels rugged.
The Rohrbaugh, while very mechanically accurate, is hard to make long shots with.

I have gotten to the point that I don't shoot the Rohrbaugh much at all, because It is somewhat irreplaceable.

I think the Sig is more comparable to guns like the Glock 43, but slightly smaller, while carrying more rounds of ammo.  I like my Glocks, but think Sig has a game changer with this one. 

I bet that there are engineers at lots of different manufacturers burning the midnight oil trying to get their own version of the 365 designed.

.

What Sig did was first engineer and build a magazine to get the capacity they were looking for.  Satisfied that it would work they then built a gun around their new magazine.  Sounds like it is working from what I have read.

Magazines seem so simple, yet cause so many problems. 

I still do not have my Auto Mag yet.  Reliability has always been hit and miss with Auto Mags since the beginning.  95% of the problems have been magazine related.  I have always been able to get my AMP's to run but it sometimes has taken a lot of messing with the mags.  The new owner and his gunsmiths are developing a magazine that will work in all AMP's and it is a very complicated procedure.

[tracker]

And, the 365 is also rated for +P ammo even though there is a school of thought that dismisses the effectiveness of using +P ammo in a short barreled pistol.

[MRC]

And, the 365 is also rated for +P ammo even though there is a school of thought that dismisses the effectiveness of using +P ammo in a short barreled pistol.

That school of thought makes no sense to me.  By shooting a short barreled pistol you lose 30 to 40 fps with std pressure ammo over a standard pistol.

My chronograph shows me that I can pick that 30 to 40 fps back up with the +P ammo.  That is all I have carried in my Solo, PM9, or Boberg.

[tracker]

Sounds good to me; why not?

[MikeInTexas]

And, the 365 is also rated for +P ammo even though there is a school of thought that dismisses the effectiveness of using +P ammo in a short barreled pistol.

That school of thought makes no sense to me.  By shooting a short barreled pistol you lose 30 to 40 fps with std pressure ammo over a standard pistol.

My chronograph shows me that I can pick that 30 to 40 fps back up with the +P ammo.  That is all I have carried in my Solo, PM9, or Boberg.

How much energy gain are you getting?  6-8% more?  Is that worth the extra recoil, muzzle flash and abuse to the firearm?

I guess it's a personal choice depending on how we all gauge our needs.

.

[cargaritaville]

I just found some Liberty Civil defense 9mm 50 gr HP for my Sig p365.  It is backordered everywhere & mfg less than 2 miles from my house. Check it out...

2-Pak Liberty Civil Defense Personal Security Lead-Free 9x19mm Parabellum +P Ammunition 50 Grain Hollow Point TWO 20-rd Boxes Ammo – 40 Rounds
This Liberty Ultra Defense ammo offers a unique lead-free lighter-weight and lower-recoil handgun projectile that overcomes the historical range, accuracy and stopping power limitations of handgun ammo. It is the world’s fastest handgun round with near double the kinetic energy and significant improved dispersion at extended range. The 50-grain 9x 19 mm Liberty Ammunition Civil Defense round reaches velocities over 2000 FPS with over 450 ft-lbs of kinetic energy. At 25 meters, Liberty Ammunition Civil Defense achieves less than 2 inches of dispersion. In ballistic gel, this round achieves 12 inches of penetration and a permanent wound cavity greater than 5 inches in diameter. This translates in to a faster, more powerful round capable of catastrophic wound damage with 16% less felt recoil. They will not penetrate the Level IIIA vest, but they create an unprecedented terminal effect in soft tissue.

Part Number: LA-CD-09-014
Caliber: 9mm Luger +P
Bullet Weight: 50 Gr
Bullet Style: Nickel-Plated Copper Jacketed Hollow Point JHP
Case Type: Nickel Plated Brass
Muzzle Velocity: 2000 fps
Muzzle Energy: 533 ft-lbs

Check out the video! Liberty 9mm shot into a gel block

[MRC]

And, the 365 is also rated for +P ammo even though there is a school of thought that dismisses the effectiveness of using +P ammo in a short barreled pistol.

That school of thought makes no sense to me.  By shooting a short barreled pistol you lose 30 to 40 fps with std pressure ammo over a standard pistol.

My chronograph shows me that I can pick that 30 to 40 fps back up with the +P ammo.  That is all I have carried in my Solo, PM9, or Boberg.

How much energy gain are you getting?  6-8% more?  Is that worth the extra recoil, muzzle flash and abuse to the firearm?

I guess it's a personal choice depending on how we all gauge our needs.

.

Energy is just a number, terminal results of penetration and expansion are what you need.  This is totally dependent on bullet design and velocity.

The Federal HST 124 +P had great terminal ballistics in the Boberg but wouldn't expand out of the Solo.  The Remington 124 GS +P Bonded work great.

The standard pressure HST's work great out of service size 9's, out of short barreled guns I would expect poor results.

I guess it is all what you think you need, but I want the best if I am going to carry it.  With the R9 choices are very limited as for ammo.  I was never able to shoot a R9 as accurately or as accurately with speed as most other small 9's so I will not carry one.

Flash and recoil have never been a problem for me with any 9, 40, or 45.  I do not shoot my carry guns enough to ever wear them out and I can always shoot range ammo to keep in practice.

[MikeInTexas]

Nice Find cargaritaville, that sounds like a hotter version of that Aguila IQ ammo that came out a few years ago.  I don't remember it being that fast though.  Still got some boxes squirreled away somewhere.

MRC if energy is just a number, so is speed.  (In Europe many countries use energy levels to determine if a caliber is legal for hunting.)  In my opinion 40 FPS is not going to make that much difference.  You will get that variance when you take into account temp, air pressure, variances in manufacturing process, distance to target, etc.. 

I personally will not submit my R9 to an ammunition that the folks who designed and made the pistol specifically warn against.  If I feel that I don't have enough firepower, hopefully I will be able to get to the larger pistol in the briefcase or the FAL in the truck.


.

[MRC]

Nice Find cargaritaville, that sounds like a hotter version of that Aguila IQ ammo that came out a few years ago.  I don't remember it being that fast though.  Still got some boxes squirreled away somewhere.

MRC if energy is just a number, so is speed.  (In Europe many countries use energy levels to determine if a caliber is legal for hunting.)  In my opinion 40 FPS is not going to make that much difference.  You will get that variance when you take into account temp, air pressure, variances in manufacturing process, distance to target, etc.. 

I personally will not submit my R9 to an ammunition that the folks who designed and made the pistol specifically warn against.  If I feel that I don't have enough firepower, hopefully I will be able to get to the larger pistol in the briefcase or the FAL in the truck.


.

You are certainly correct that velocity is just a number also.  The catch is that velocity combined with bullet design is what yields good terminal ballistics.  A standard pressure round that gives good performance in a service sized  pistol can fail badly in a short barreled micro gun.  You must look at the results from each particular ammunition fired from each particular gun.  I feel that it is usually better to err to the high side on velocity.

Here is the equation to calculate bullet energy:

  Bullet  Energy = .5 X bullet mass X (bullet velocity)(bullet velocity)

As you can see, it is highly weighted toward high velocity rounds.

Give me an explanation as  to how this number translates to bullet effectiveness.  Light weight bullets with high velocities have high energy numbers and fail miserably when shooting game.  It is used in Europe and the United States because it is just a number and easily calculated.  It is not totally meaningless, but one must use a some judgement about how it is used.

[backupr9]

E=(M)(V)(V) is basic physics, but when discussing effect on tissue, the character of the M (bullet) has a large part to play.  If the bullet at 2K f/sec passes clear through the target tissue, the kinetic energy is wasted.  The bullet must expand at an effective depth of tissue at the velocity allowed by the barrel length.  It would thus seem that regardless of other factors, testing of each type of ammo in ballistic gelatin for penetration and wound cavity with each weapon would be the only correct method of identifying the proper round for self defense (and even then the effect of winter vs. summer clothing, etc. must be considered).  Anyone who wishes max kinetic energy out of a small round should try a Ruger LCR in .327 mag...pretty close to a .357 mag but with more muzzle blast and a bit less recoil!

I also wonder what the effect of a tremendous muzzle blast might be on an opponent might be in a gunfight...might be worth a second thought.