Bad Breath Distance

[espy2022]

I have an aversion to ever purposely misquoting anyone, but I want to say that one of the brothers Rohrbaugh once said something to the effect that "...The R9 was designed to be used at 'Bad Breath Distance'..."

What got me thinking about this recently was a conversation I had with a friend, where we were discussing our personal habits of practicing with our chosen EDC weapons and I mentioned that I only put 2 mags a year through my R9, simply because I'm satisfied with what I can do at 5 -7 yards (more like 3) and that I consider that to be what my chosen weapon was intended for.  I own larger pistols, but they are not as easy to carry and the only other EDC alternative to my R9 I would consider is an LCP or similar in .380.  I'm not here to start a discussion on caliber, but I dare say most of us would rather have a 9mm pup in the pocket than most anything else  :-)

I know others of you have had similar talks with your buddies about what you carry, so I'm just curious how those conversations have gone. My mindset is that in a legally defensible SD situation, shooting much outside of 5-7 yards is going to bring about unpleasant conversations.  I'm also a fairly well trained citizen and I'm aware of things like the Tueller drill (I ran/covered a distance that actually scared me as a result during participation), so proficiency with your EDC at ~15 yards is certainly requisite in some potential situations.

My ultimate question is this:  Should someone that owns an R9 and practices with my chosen frequency be concerned about longer distances, or am I being smart about thinking its only a short range weapon and going with the statistics that seem to support the majority of encouters are well inside of 21 feet?

Thanks all, and I always enjoy your feedback!

JD

[JoshA]

I have become fairly ok with mine out to 20 feet for that odd situation where there was an active shooter in a room and I could actually take a more careful aim to hopefully end a bad situation.

Other than that I feel like the little guy may be out of place in a longer range battle with limited ammo and site radius etc.

 I am with you in that I feel like it's a great bad breath distance gun.

Hope to not find out.

As for conversations with others, speculations about what to be prepared for differ not only for how many people you know but then from day to day that changes as well. I look at my own views from the day I bought my first hand gun living in the inner city and being 26 to now. A lot has changed in those years. A lot has changed in my head in the last 3 years. Hard to nail down a constant other than change for me.

[backupr9]

Interesting fact about the Tueller drill is that in order to survive such an attack you must already have a weapon in hand, preferably out of your pocket or nearly so, and by the time you could respond you would definitely be at "bad breath" distance.  IMO a smaller, shorter weapon such as the R9 would likely I be the best choice in that circumstance.  I carry the R9 right front pocket in a DeSantis Superfly and generally walk around with my hand on the pistol.  I know that I cannot prepare for every eventuality so I try to prepare for the most likely event.  I do admit there are rare times when I feel more prepared carrying my .45.

[spider445]

JD

You're correct, the reason for a private citizen to carry a weapon is for personal protection, and that of his family.  These distances are going to be in the "Bad Breath Range",
if you start going beyond these distances you will be removing the lid to pandora's box.  If the subject is twenty yards away from you and closing they will reach the Bad breath Range is mere seconds.  If they remain at that distance it's best to remove yourself from the threat area.  Regarding active shooter's, again it's an up close event, you must also remember that LE will be arriving and current training is for them to enter the area immediately.  You standing in plain cloths with a gun will most likely get you shot rather quickly. In the past few weeks two plain cloths detectives had been shot by their own under these types of circumstances.  Remember they are covered under good faith, paid while being placed on administrative leave during the investigation, and attorney's fee's being paid for, you on the other hand won't have that luxury.

Greg

[johnny]

  Well,here's my take on the whole carrying thing.
      We have had conceal carry here in Wisconsin for I think about 5 years.I was really disappointed when it got vetoed by our previous governor.I will carry one of my 1911's both inside,(Milt Sparks),and outside (Galco) now and then.The outside is fine but a bit hard to conceal,at times.The inside is easy to conceal,but not very comfortable after awhile.It seems one has to keep pulling the pants up.
    Wel,l then  go to my Glock 43.Inside and outside the waist.Not too bad.Then my new Ruger LCR9mm.Very comfortable.
       I have kind of come to a conclusion to use my 1911's for my IDPA,and my other league shooting and leave it at that.No matter how much I love those 2 guns,they are too heavy to deal with on a regular basis.
     Now my R9.I bought it  new before conceal carry went into effect.As far as I am concerned outside of my Ruger,nothing comes close to comfort like the Rohrbaugh.That brings me to bad breath distance.I hope to hell I never ever run into a situation that I am called on to draw a weapon.Even justified,the problems begin.At least at a close range,my speculation,and my speculation only,a jury may take a more forgiving tone as apposed to maybe a distance of 15 feet.

[JoshA]

JD

You're correct, the reason for a private citizen to carry a weapon is for personal protection, and that of his family.  These distances are going to be in the "Bad Breath Range",
if you start going beyond these distances you will be removing the lid to pandora's box.  If the subject is twenty yards away from you and closing they will reach the Bad breath Range is mere seconds.  If they remain at that distance it's best to remove yourself from the threat area.  Regarding active shooter's, again it's an up close event, you must also remember that LE will be arriving and current training is for them to enter the area immediately.  You standing in plain cloths with a gun will most likely get you shot rather quickly. In the past few weeks two plain cloths detectives had been shot by their own under these types of circumstances.  Remember they are covered under good faith, paid while being placed on administrative leave during the investigation, and attorney's fee's being paid for, you on the other hand won't have that luxury.

Greg

Thanks Greg. I'll keep that in mind if I'm in a Restraunt or theater and someone has the place under fire

[tracker]

Whatever the distance that you make a hit it may be a good idea to have $250k in your cookie jar for legal defense if it goes to a jury trial.

[spider445]

Like I was taught many years ago, know what your capabilities are before the situation happens and hopefully you will be prepared.  But Murphy's Law always interjects some fun to make it even more interesting.  Most of these types will have some serious firepower and wearing armor, most who carry won't even have a spare reload. You also have to take into account that you might not be the only person carrying, what are they seeing and thinking.  I always thought it was crazy when they taught us to attack an ambush but it does work.  I hope no-one ever has to face this situation, because as bad as it is, what happens next is even worse.

[johnny]

  A lot of good thoughts here on this particular thread I thought.
    it's a serious business,carrying.One's whole life pretty much changes after a shooting involved incident.And yes,what Tracker said,you better have a large cookie jar,filled to the brim.
                                                                                                             

[JoshA]

I guess in the end it may come down to a thought of:

Well if I die or have to legally defend myself in order to attempt to protect my life or the life of another innocent then in the end it's still best to be prepared with a firearm. The rest is up to the Powers that be and out of my hands.

The only really twist that remains is an innocent being hit by a stray round. That would be the twist I would personally find it hard to live with. In the end there are a lot of things in life that don't fit so neatly in a box. I hope we never have to deal with this one. Truly.

Great insights. Thanks for the conversation fellas.