Ask ECR

[T-Man]

Hi, Eric --
I'm a manufacturing engineer in a shop that designs and builds tooling for CNC machines, so I'm well acquainted with some of the manufacturing issues and design tradeoffs you guys no doubt encountered during your time building these fine pistols.

Just curious -- did you guys experiment with other alloys besides 17-4PH and 416 for the slides and what I assume is either 6061-T6, 7075-T6, or 7050-T7651 for the frames? If so, what were some of the reasons (beyond the cracking issue already mentioned) that lead to your decision to go with the materials in the final revision?

Also, am I correct in assuming the black slide finish is salt-bath ferritic nitride (i.e. "Melonite," "QPQ," several other trade names)?

[ECR]

Good Morning Ted,

Karl and I wanted to use nothing but the best materials available for the R9 pistols; hence the original 17-4PH slides, barrels and ALL of the small parts were also cut from 17-4PH Stainless solid billets to include the trigger, extractor, ejector, hammer, magazine release and plunger. The frames were made from 7075-T6 through the entire production of our firearms. Besides the few cracked slides we had issue with, which as stated before was heat treat related and not a bad mill run of stainless, we had experienced excessive galling at the barrel to slide lockup area. Asking our “insiders” what was the problem; they suggested that due to the dissimilar metals, i.e., 416 barrels and 17-4PH slides, that was an issue. They mentioned most manufacturers were using the 416 stainless for both their barrels and their slides. We changed to what seemed to be the industry standard and made the decision, after much testing, to remain with that change in metal choices to the 416 for both the slides and the barrels. We had no more problems with galling after that change, so we stayed with it.

Yes, the black slides on our “Stealth” models was a Ferritic Nitro carburizing treatment called BlackNitride® by H&M Metal Processing out of Akron, Ohio. We had tried a few different companies through the years, but H&M did the treatment on most of our black slides and they were extremely nice to work with.

Regards,

Eric R.

[rod m1]

What is the best way to remove and reinstall the fire pin stop? In the past I've had a gritty feeling fire pin and just blasted it ought with cleaner.

My next question is my Elite really need refinishing what finish whose used by the factory and how many did you make? Last I would like to thank you for making this grate work of art and wish you the best in retirement.

[ECR]

Hello Rod,

Sorry it took this long to respond to your inquiries, however, I was away on vacation and just returned.

Well, we actually had made a tool to make that an easy task. It was round stock stainless steel which we cut down to fit inside the firing pin retainer hole at approximately .124” of an inch, making the end of the tool slightly rounded and not crisp-edged.  Then we went to a slightly larger diameter so as to use it as its own “stop” against to retainer. Machined that way, you are able to insert that tool into the rear of the retainer without fear of hitting the machined area inside the slide where the firing pin and spring are located. Tap down on it to remove the retainer from the slide. The procedure is:  First, place the slide (without the barrel of course) flat on your workbench, top of slide facing up. Place a soft cloth over the nose and put that up against a vise mounted to the bench. Then insert the tool into the firing pin retainer forcing the firing pin forward, clearing the slide internally. Now it is possible to use a ballpeen hammer to tap the retainer out of the slide. Careful as once the retainer drops out; the firing pin and its spring with “take off” on you!  To reinstall the firing pin:  Place the slide on its nose on the bench. Insert the firing pin spring and firing pin. Push down on the firing pin with a 1/8” punch; slide the retainer in the cut out channel of the slide to “catch” the firing pin, remove the punch and the tap the retainer back in place.

The coating of the black slides is noted in the above response to Ted. In reference to how many R9 Elite pistols were made. . . . . Well, we no longer have those records as they went to Remington during the sale. Not knowing exactly how many were made without access to those records, I would say we made quite a few hundred of them, but, certainly not thousands for sure as the sides were all sanded by hand on a block of granite covered by declining grades of Emory cloth coated with machine oils to get that silver side. They were not the fastest thing to do at the factory, so usually we took a few days to “do a batch”. . . . and that is all we usually did on those days. . . . hand sand the Elite slides!  Time consuming for sure to build those.

Thank you for your compliment on our pistol. It was fun to make them!

. . . and finally, yes. . . . Karl and I are enjoying our retirement.   

Regards,

Eric R.

[degun]

Eric,

First, thanks for being part of the team that brought such a great firearm to the American shooters.  I presently own 4.  Three R9s and one Special Forces.  #R1638 has been a in a Recluse holster in my right front pocket daily now for many years.  My question to you is about the Special Forces model.  How many Special Forces were actually made?  I keep seeing where only 24 were ever made.  According to how many I have seen for sale over the last few years,  either more than 24 were made or they are being put up for sale pretty often!

Thanks,
David

[ECR]

Hello David and "Thank You" for believing in our little pistol. While I can say I remember building more than 24 Special Forces versions of the R9, I would only be able to guesstimate how many were actually made as the paperwork is now in the hands of the new owners: Remington Arms Corp.

I would say we made somewhere around maybe 50 - 80 of them but again, that was years ago now and counting how many we made was something we really did not actually do. I would have been able to pull the records and see how many were shipped, but those records are gone now. When we got orders for that model, I would simply make them to fill those orders.  Without access to the files, all I can do is put an approximate number out here for you Dave. I wish I could do better than that for you and everyone, but, unfortunately, that's the facts. . . . . . a guesstimate at best at this time. I can give you some insight was to why we stopped making them however. . . . . and one of the reasons was that when the barrels were treated black, the finish would begin to wear off rather quickly as it was a thin process. Complaints about that rolled in and while we investigated different ways to make a black barrel stay black for a longer period of time, it was not to be, hence the demise of The Special Forces model and the blackened barrels. Some people fully understood that issue and were fine with it, while others would not hear of it. . . . So it was better to stop making them rather than deal with those people who "didn't want to hear it." . . . . i.e. the excuse / reasoning for the scuffing on the top of the black barrels.

Stay Safe.

Regards,

Eric C. Rohrbaugh

[pjames32]

Eric
I've wanted an R9 since they came out. Had a chance to shoot one a few years ago and began my search. Finally pulled the trigger today and bought an R9s on e bay. It should come in next week.
I own NO other 9mm. All my stuff is 40 or 45.
I need to go to the store to get some rounds and need your suggestion of what to buy.
Help??
Paul James

[ECR]

Good Afternoon Paul and welcome to the forum. In reference to what ammunition to use in the R9. . . . . Karl and I usually carried Gold Dot 124 grain JHP and at the range to function test the firearm we used Federal American Eagle 115 FMJ. These are the rounds we used through the years to test fire all new R9s that came out of our shop. Keep her clean and you should not have a problem. If you have any further questions, chime in here again and I'll do my best to answer them for you.

Regards and thanks for picking up "The Original".

Eric C. Rohrbaugh

[pjames32]

Eric
Thanks for the reply. Just bought the Gold Dot 124gr to try when I get my new baby.
Paul James

[ECR]

Sounds great Paul. I'm sure you will give us a range report then. Enjoy the new addition when she comes. I'd be interested to view both sides and the rear of the slide along with the serial number if you take and post any photographs.

[tattoo]

Any thoughts on hard chrome or nickle finish on slides? Wanting to bling up my pup a little and got a few scratches on the slide. Thanks in advance

[ECR]

I have seen a few R9s done in either finish and they continue to work fine, so if you are looking to bling things up a bit, I'd say pick a finish and go for it with my blessings. 

[72AV8R]

Did the .45 prototype go to Remington? How close to production were you with it?

[JoshA]

I have seen a few R9s done in either finish and they continue to work fine, so if you are looking to bling things up a bit, I'd say pick a finish and go for it with my blessings. 

If a guy wanted to do an elite look and sand the sides, what would you finish the bare metal with Eric?

[ECR]

Did the .45 prototype go to Remington? How close to production were you with it?

No, it did not. We are still in possession of that one.          We were approximately two years away with the finances we had. If we had more R&D cash laying around, it would have been within a year at the time of the sale to Remington.