Tales From The Morgue~interesting read about ballistics ALSO: Greg Ellifaz data

[JoshA]

I really agree that .32 is small.

I once read how LW Seecamp saved his life on the Russian front or something with his .32 in a hand to hand combat situation, but I think he used it on his foe in a head shot.

Not really where I want to have to be if I could help it through some "situational awareness". The recent hospital shooting involved 2 .32 caliber handguns in a small room and I think that's about all the Dr could smuggle undercover, but his attacker had to be subdued after taking 3 shots from a Seecamp.

I think that if I am aware of that situation I should avoid it just as a dark alley or a group of suspicious characters.

If I am doing what I can do and I am still outgunned I figure i did what I could. If I have no weapon or is really too small or a jambo special then I'm mad at me.

But to each his own is right. That's just my thought. I even own a .25 beretta jet fire. I don't know why, but it is a cool little gun. Not going into the jungle with me though.

[tracker]

I agree completely, Josh. Why would anyone carry a .32 of any kind if they own a functional R9?

[Douglas]

Josh,

I got a chuckle from Tracker's advice. I think I offered essentially the same in our PM chats, in re: your G27. Pick one and be done.

-That said, (as I did) I do get the "hobby" of it. As I know that you do too.

I enjoy reading, researching, and talking about this stuff. As I know that you do too.

We just always need to separate that from what we actually do every day. Every day we need to be properly prepared to act appropriately.

I saw a couple of cars today, at the evidence impound, riddled with bullet holes. I do not know what caliber they were. One looked like 9mm/.40 and one like .45 (they were bigger. )

The shooting (meaning the effectiveness) with the smaller shots (8, I think) was worse. The shooting with the bigger shots (6?) was better. There was blood on the driver's seat with the larger rounds. I don't think that says anything about caliber. The shooting just looked better. So that said to me, you need to be able to shoot as well (and as fast) as you can.

I have absolutely no idea what the circumstances were. I was only looking at sheet metal. I have ZERO facts.

Yesterday in one of the outer boros of NYC a nut hacked one kid with a hatchet and bashed in another kid's skull. Finally a couple of guys got there and put the nut down. The 9mm worked fine for that. A lot of rounds were fired. I don't know that it was because so many were specifically required to end the threat, or (more probably) because there were multiple officers firing so the round count goes up quickly. -If you fire three rounds, that doesn't seem crazy. If five officers are on scene and do the same (since there can be no established plan, prior to an event that no one can foresee) suddenly it sounds bad... but it's exactly the same.

That's a BIG part of the problem with any caliber-effectiveness research.

As I told you, in semis I'm a 9mm/.45 ACP guy. In revolvers I like .38 Special.

Beyond that, it's train oneself physically and (more importantly) mentally. I am a firm believer (based on my personal experience) that, if you do this, you will likely never be called upon to prove it. The predators very quickly size-up who they can take and who they can't.

[JoshA]

Thanks Douglas. You are right. I think you two are collaborating 

[Douglas]

I should be so lucky.

I am not in his class.

[JoshA]

I don't know what class Tracker is in, but he's a very nice guy like yourself IMO.  Thanks to both of ya for the helps and opinions.

Carrying the .38 yet Douglas?

[JoshA]

Never mind the snubbie question. I just saw that you are on hight alert there and have gone to the G19 under the LCR heading.

What's this about taking out officers even off duty? ? ?

Who is behind that? Sorry don't listen to much news.

[Douglas]

Yeah, some of these outfits in the middle east produce very high quality digital information bulletins.

I mean sharp! Like, if you get People Magazine online, or the like.

They have been encouraging their followers and marginal sympathizers to attack military and law enforcement personnel and their families worldwide, most especially in Europe and North America. -Stuff like, "If you don't have explosives, shoot them. If you don't have a gun, stab them, or smash their heads with a rock. Run them down with your car."

I've read these publications.

Last week a couple of Canadian military members were run down with a car. A baby in Jerusalem was killed the same way.

Yesterday those uniformed NYPD officers were attacked on the street in broad daylight by a guy with a hand axe.

Canada has apparently directed their military personnel not to wear their uniforms off duty. I've received updates about public behavior (-as in, maybe I shouldn't eat lunch in public, etc.)

Just coming and going around town, things may have changed. A simple robbery is just one part of the equation these days.

[Richard S]

Douglas:

The hatchet attack on the uniformed NYPD officers by that idiot Islamic extremist shows once again the ever present dangers that you and your colleagues face each day in your service to our society.  My hat is off to you.

This ISIS (or ISIL) group of fanatics with their "wannabe converts" and their absurdly false claims to be acting in the name of religious faith bring to mind something once written by Eric Hoffer:

There are similarities between absolute power and absolute faith: a demand for absolute obedience, a readiness to attempt the impossible, a bias for simple solutions to cut the knot rather than unravel it, the viewing of compromise as surrender. Both absolute power and absolute faith are instruments of dehumanization. Hence, absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power.

     Eric Hoffer, The New York Times Magazine, April 25, 1971

[tracker]

I recall this tragic incident with a British soldier in London last year. Certainly not a new tactic for the crazies but it was one of the first against targeted uniformed personnel in my recollection. This one in May of last year could have been ISIS related. Carry adequate weapons/ammo and always stay alert comes through loud and clear against these fanatics.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/man-murdered-london-terroism-suspected-article-1.1351640

[Douglas]

Richard's erudite response sent me Googling Eric Hoffer. Sounds like an interesting guy, and these are certainly "interesting times."

Even still, often I feel like it's "same circus, different clowns." It was just about two years ago, in the same neighborhood as the hatchet guy, we had a nut walk up out of the blue and stab one of our guys in the face. Our guy handled it, DRT, but will never see out of that eye again.

No agenda, no organization, just spontaneously targeted a uniform. The more things change... 

[the_skunk]

As I said earlier, to each his own, but a .32 is a very lightweight caliber for self defense; better than nothing. If you just love a Seecamp that is a different matter.

Nope - I don't love the Seecamp. Most seecamp owners just like the looks.

Myself - I carry everyday, and the gun just slips into my pocket. When I couldn't get the Silvertips, I used crap ammo, and the seecamp was too undependable, so I bought a SW 642, but it's clunker. Then I bought a Sig 232, which eventually became dependable. Next it was a Kimber Ultra 9mm.

The Seecamp pros:  --- It's safe, small, dependable, and comes into action fast.

The Seecamp cons: --- The ammo is impossible to find.

As far as a .32 cal, it's strictly a 5 ft shot to the head.

[JoshA]

Yeah, some of these outfits in the middle east produce very high quality digital information bulletins.

I mean sharp! Like, if you get People Magazine online, or the like.

They have been encouraging their followers and marginal sympathizers to attack military and law enforcement personnel and their families worldwide, most especially in Europe and North America. -Stuff like, "If you don't have explosives, shoot them. If you don't have a gun, stab them, or smash their heads with a rock. Run them down with your car."

I've read these publications.

Last week a couple of Canadian military members were run down with a car. A baby in Jerusalem was killed the same way.

Yesterday those uniformed NYPD officers were attacked on the street in broad daylight by a guy with a hand axe.

Canada has apparently directed their military personnel not to wear their uniforms off duty. I've received updates about public behavior (-as in, maybe I shouldn't eat lunch in public, etc.)

Just coming and going around town, things may have changed. A simple robbery is just one part of the equation these days.

This is absolutely insane. I'm sorry I hadn't heard of this stuff. I wouldn't doubt if more go undercover.

Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty ~ TJ
 

[JoshA]

Douglas:

The hatchet attack on the uniformed NYPD officers by that idiot Islamic extremist shows once again the ever present dangers that you and your colleagues face each day in your service to our society.  My hat is off to you.


+1

[Richard S]

... Eric Hoffer. Sounds like an interesting guy, and these are certainly "interesting times."

Even still, often I feel like it's "same circus, different clowns." It was just about two years ago, in the same neighborhood as the hatchet guy, we had a nut walk up out of the blue and stab one of our guys in the face. Our guy handled it, DRT, but will never see out of that eye again.

No agenda, no organization, just spontaneously targeted a uniform. The more things change... 

That is spot on the mark.  It is the "same circus, different clowns."  That is one message in Hoffer's book, The True Believer.  I first read that book in 1956 when I was a young Senate staffer working my way through GWU at night.  I learned that then President Eisenhower had given copies of the book to members of his Cabinet with instructions that they should read it.  I decided that I should read it as well.  It changed my entire outlook on the broad sweep of history and the religious and political mass movements that so often shape it.