Update on Rohrbaugh -- New Information

[DDGator]

I am very careful to ensure things I say are true.  I'm not just some schmuck with an internet connection making this stuff up -- I've got a pretty good history of being right about Rohrbaugh if you care to review the history of this forum.  I am not wrong about this.

For the record, it is a MOVE and a SALE.  At first, all they could say is that they were moving the factory, which was true.  Then, the purchaser allowed them to divulge some limited additional facts that the company had been sold.

There is no IF the company was sold -- it was sold.  As for when the new purchaser may choose to start answering the phones -- I have no idea.  However, I suspect that they didn't buy an existing company just to shut the doors.

As for the FFL checker -- I have no idea.  Perhaps it is not up to date.  Perhaps there is other licensing involved in accepting firearms for repair in New York beyond an FFL.  Perhaps the new purchaser's legal department has an opinion about what they can and can't do in the midst of a relocation.  Maybe they were told they couldn't accept the gun because they had no equipment left to fix it in New York and weren't allowed to transport it across state lines and ship it back from a different location.  What I do know is this --  a couple of guns arriving in Deer Park were refused because the Rohrbaughs were told they could not legally accept them in Deer Park anymore.

There is not a conspiracy hiding under every rock.

[bobsmith]

Well with all the ammo samples, trips to the range, fedex fees, and initial cost of the purchase it's gotten to be a large waste of money and time by now.  I think frustration is totally justified. I've talked to a few other *"angry"** customers off line as well.  I appreciate that you have some loyalty to them and that's fine.  I'm just some new guy here who purchased a VERY expensive pistol NEW with a warranty that doesn't appear to be worth the paper it was printed on.  How do I even get parts for it now?

I imagine this situation will grow exponentially as more people try to get service done, or call on orders they have placed.  Do people have deposits on firearms?  Have they fulfilled all the accessory orders in?  When I called my dealer on Monday he had no idea and had 2 pistols on order with them. 

This is a public forum to discuss the pistols and that's my opinion on the situation.

** initially stated that I had anger issues in prior post. "Wow..You really seem to have some anger issues over this"..


       

[DDGator]

Yes, I quickly changed my mind about whether it was appropriate for me to comment on your anger.  You can be angry if you like.  It is a public forum, created by me.  I want to be sure I am following my own standards for polite conduct.

What I didn't care for was the insinuation that the information that I was conveying to the forum was wrong, or the implication that this was all some type of cover up.  It's kind of like coming into my house and calling me a liar.  The anonymitiy of the Internet allows us to say things and question people in ways we would never do face to face.

And yes, the Rohrbaughs are my friends and I don't like various insinuations (not just you) that they are bad or unethical in business, or that they are taking advantage of their popularity to provide sub-standard customer service, or they are stealing customers' deposits, or they are leaving town in the middle of the night, or whatever.  It is particularly frustrating to me (and to them) because they don't have any control over the lack of communciation at this point -- their hands are tied.  I guess if you want to judge the new purchaser and condemn that company for treating you this way -- then so be it.

My hope is simply that people accept the information that I have provided and give this a little bit of time for the full story to develop.  I know in this day and age we expect immediate results -- but delays happen, even to big businesses.

Also, there isn't going to be a problem with your warranty or getting parts.  Rohrbuagh Firearms was sold -- it didn't go out of business.  Now you are going to have a very large, well-established company standing behind your pistol and ensuring your parts availability in the future -- instead of a very small company.  Once this intitial period of delay is gone, you are actually in a far better position now than when you purchased the gun.  In my opinion, of course.

[the_skunk]

Normally if 95 out of 100 guns are reliable, then the problem is in the ammo. It's a good guess that the new buyers want the brand name, and a sale to a well run larger company will be beneficial.

But when you spend big bucks on a self defense gun, and the gun is iffy - then anyone would have anger issues.

[Richard S]

I am very careful to ensure things I say are true.  I'm not just some schmuck with an internet connection making this stuff up -- I've got a pretty good history of being right about Rohrbaugh if you care to review the history of this forum.  I am not wrong about this.

For the record, it is a MOVE and a SALE.  At first, all they could say is that they were moving the factory, which was true.  Then, the purchaser allowed them to divulge some limited additional facts that the company had been sold.

There is no IF the company was sold -- it was sold.  As for when the new purchaser may choose to start answering the phones -- I have no idea.  However, I suspect that they didn't buy an existing company just to shut the doors.

As for the FFL checker -- I have no idea.  Perhaps it is not up to date.  Perhaps there is other licensing involved in accepting firearms for repair in New York beyond an FFL.  Perhaps the new purchaser's legal department has an opinion about what they can and can't do in the midst of a relocation.  Maybe they were told they couldn't accept the gun because they had no equipment left to fix it in New York and weren't allowed to transport it across state lines and ship it back from a different location.  What I do know is this --  a couple of guns arriving in Deer Park were refused because the Rohrbaughs were told they could not legally accept them in Deer Park anymore.

There is not a conspiracy hiding under every rock.

_____

I fully endorse the foregoing remarks of the Forum Administrator.

[MaxBlack]

It is particularly frustrating to me (and to them) because they don't have any control over the lack of communciation at this point -- their hands are tied.  I guess if you want to judge the new purchaser and condemn that company for treating you this way -- then so be it.

I think it is fair to criticize the Rohrbaughs for not having handled this very gracefully (to be kind). They clearly expended significant effort meeting and planning and agonizing and deciding to make the sale & move--there can be few excuses for how they managed to do that without insisting to the new owners (and themselves) that the transition did absolutely need to take into account that they have numerous existing service issues they are dealing with, and new sales also, with (accordingly) new customer issues, and to make certain these customers were not left hanging.

Business 101.

[MRC]

It is particularly frustrating to me (and to them) because they don't have any control over the lack of communciation at this point -- their hands are tied.  I guess if you want to judge the new purchaser and condemn that company for treating you this way -- then so be it.

I think it is fair to criticize the Rohrbaughs for not having handled this very gracefully (to be kind). They clearly expended significant effort meeting and planning and agonizing and deciding to make the sale & move--there can be few excuses for how they managed to do that without insisting to the new owners (and themselves) that the transition did absolutely need to take into account that they have numerous existing service issues they are dealing with, and new sales also, with (accordingly) new customer issues, and to make certain these customers were not left hanging.

Business 101.

Maybe they are not in control of the sale.  It certainly looks that way to me.

[Magrred]

While I may not personally agree with way this transition is perceived to be unfolding, I will be the first to acknowledge that I do not know the circumstances that led to its start or the way it is being handled.

It is easy for us to stand on the sidelines and criticize actions that we may not fully understand or have an appreciation for. We are not the ones in the direct line of fire that have to make the tough decisions and hopefully find a way to survive.

What I do know is that we would not know as much as we do if it had not been for the willingness of DDGator to try and keep us informed.

This seems like a tough situation for both the Rohrbaugh Company, their customers and followers and I would like to offer encouragement that the brand, quality and good customer service will return.

Again, thanks to DDGator for keeping us informed.

[bobsmith]

It is particularly frustrating to me (and to them) because they don't have any control over the lack of communciation at this point -- their hands are tied.  I guess if you want to judge the new purchaser and condemn that company for treating you this way -- then so be it.

I think it is fair to criticize the Rohrbaughs for not having handled this very gracefully (to be kind). They clearly expended significant effort meeting and planning and agonizing and deciding to make the sale & move--there can be few excuses for how they managed to do that without insisting to the new owners (and themselves) that the transition did absolutely need to take into account that they have numerous existing service issues they are dealing with, and new sales also, with (accordingly) new customer issues, and to make certain these customers were not left hanging.

Business 101.

I fully endorse the remarks of MaxBlack.   

I know this will sound like conspiracy to some of the users here, but I find it an interesting fact. Based on my serial number and the last frame serial number (6678) they have not been making very many pistols over the last four or five months.  I'd guess they either stopped production near the end of 2013 of have been down to about 20-30 a month.  This is just a guess based on dates I know of on my unit.

I hope that DDGator is correct and that this is just a poorly structured sale we are dealing with. 

[backupr9]

I also thank DD for his efforts now and in the past.  My first R9 was perfect, but I stupidly sold it to upgrade to a Covert.  When I had a problem with that pistol, Karl and Maria and staff were wonderful to deal with and that pistol is now my reliable EDC.  My third R9 is rarely fired, but so far I've not had any problems with it.  I would agree that there is very likely more to the story than we will know, but the Rohrbaugh team has always been ethical and customer oriented and will, I am confident, be so again. 

[MaxBlack]

I do not question their ethics and can imagine that the opportunity the Rohrbaughs faced was hectic and stressful. All I'm saying is that regardless of any of that, Rule #1 in any business is to take care of your customers first. No matter how intimidating the situation might have been for them, it was within their rights to insist that certain things be done to protect their fine customers. They messed-up.

Even if there were only two, the two guys here that I've seen with problems, these should have mattered first to the company.

Now I step down off my soapbox because I'm sure I screwed-up many many times over my business career (now retired so yes it's easy for me to criticize) and I thank DDGator for bringing us the information he has and commend him for supporting his friends through this no-doubt-difficult-for-all transition period.

[DDGator]

I know this will sound like conspiracy to some of the users here, but I find it an interesting fact. Based on my serial number and the last frame serial number (6678) they have not been making very many pistols over the last four or five months.  I'd guess they either stopped production near the end of 2013 of have been down to about 20-30 a month.  This is just a guess based on dates I know of on my unit.

Yes, this is part of what I keep saying.  Rohrbaugh was a very small company with a few employees doing a small volume of business.  (All of which makes it that much more impressive that they produced high quality products with a strong and loyal customer base).  I don't doubt that your numbers could be correct -- although guns don't necessarily come out of the factory in sequential order.

They see this sale (and their continued invovlement) as a way to fix the inherent problems of a small business and still produce the guns they love.  There is far more potential ahead of them with the resources of a larger, established company.  If you look at this industry, the small players don't tend to survive.  And to the extent they do, they are often plagued with production volume issues -- i.e., they can't make enough product to keep their supply lines full. 

That being said, when you sell your closely-held company to a much larger company, you don't get to dicatate how and when they start answering your phone.  Sorry, that sounds good, but it is not reality.

Some will attribute their experience to mismanagement or negligence or whatever, and I don't expect to change anyone's mind.  Only time will tell.
I expect that all will be revealed in the fullness of time.

[Richard S]

Duane, you are doing a superb job of dealing with all this gratuitous and trivial criticism that has cluttered the Forum lately regarding the sale of Rohrbaugh Firearms.

[tracker]

"This too shall pass."

[hedrok]

"This too shall pass."

Sorta like a kidney stone.

Joking aside...I've been a customer of this small, family business for a long time and have been extremely well treated each and every time I've had contact with the Rohrbaugh family.  As the owner of a small business myself, I'm legally aware enough to know that when the lawyers say "do not discuss...." (fill in the blank) it can void the deal...have costly confidentiality violation penalties...etc.
Please remember that hurricane Sandy wiped out one of the owners' residences and most of the factory, as I recall.  Things like that are not easy to recover from in any way, much less the short time since the hurricane...what...1 1/2 years ago? 
These are honorable people who very purely love their trade and are proud of the pistol they designed that bears their name.  How would you like to sell YOUR creation...Your baby?  I give them a lot of credit for trying to save the......(fill in the blank).
Give them time to work things out.  I can only believe they will do everything in their power correct whatever issues exist.  I'm also pretty sure these old, original pups will be a superb investment.  Mine aren't going anywhere.