Ok... Lovin my Rohrbaugh(S)...

[JoshA]

Suing is nowhere whatsoever on my radar. I'm not even sure I have a legit warranty, but it is comforting to know there are laws that I'm sure Remington (or whoever) will be knowledgable of and hopefully attempting to abide by.

That's for the response sir.

[DDGator]

Suing is nowhere whatsoever on my radar.

I really wasn't suggesting that you were -- just trying to make my point.  You have whatever rights you have and the corporate ownership changes don't matter as far as that goes.

[JoshA]

Point well put and point well taken. Thanks again for clarifying.

[MRC]

Also: MRC, what do you mean by the statement "I still do not believe that the Rohrbaugh's are the ones doing the selling"?

Are you referring to the other investors?

No, the sale is probably controlled by debt holders and creditors of the old Rohrbaugh Corp.  It takes a while to see who gets paid and who does not. 

That is just my guess.

[JoshA]

So you are musing that there may have been some bad debt following the Bros around that they couldn't pay back which a court resolved (or was going to resolve) by forcing a sale ...(or else) kind of thing. The "bail out of a sinking ship" technique. Otherwise known in wider circles as BOOSS. Dumb joke. Sorry.

I have done some business with a few contractors over the years that have been in that situation. Things tend to get pretty squirrelly toward the end of that ride. All the fun is gone from the business and debt collectors are coming down hard and the typical modes of communication become compromised. Service goes out the window and a desperate type of dog paddle with more flailing than artful strokes takes place. Not pretty. Not sure these earmarks were observable with Rohrbaugh or if that's more with a contractor business.

 The other thing is, how in the world would they have garnered interest from a mogul in the industry with a junk business model? Not sure about that, but it seems if they couldn't make it with their current lower overhead business model it would take a lot of tweaks to refine the production process enough to make a profit with such a small niche market. Perhaps that's where the consolidation process makes sense. Refine the process, get away from high New York costs and sharpen the production to a knifes edge.

However, that being said whoever bought this company seems to have both a dysfunctionality and a macro view kind of thing going on, so it may be hard to put them in a box and say what does and doesn't make sense. They seem to be breaking the conventional rules of business operations.


I guess that is certainly one possibility though.

[Richard S]

Josh:

I post this with no intention to offend or appear to be pretentious.

1. You purchased a used R9.  Only God and the previous owner know what if any abuse was inflicted on your copy of the finest pocket pistol ever produced.

2.  I do not purport to know the grip you have used in firing your R9, but I can assure you that anything less than a firm platform (some call it "limp wristing") to absorb the recoil force of a 13-ounce pistol chambered for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge will result in FTEs, FTFs, and who the hell knows what else of a disappointing nature. 
* * * [Balance of quote redacted to comply with length of post requirements.]

Oh for gosh sakes.  This is your response to about anyone who isn't happy with the products.  Did you re-type this, or just cut and paste it from another thread?  I can almost type it for you by now: 

1) Used gun, been abused to death by a gorilla shooting +p+ for years.

2) This is the worlds best gun and there are no problems ever.

3)  It's your weak grip.

4) Suck it up.  This is nothing compared to hanlow POW camp.


We all know you love the gun, but let's be realistic here.  Do you really think that the only messed up ones are from user abuse? If it was so amazing why have they only been selling a few hundred a year.

Why do I come here to read this nonsense?

Mr. Smith:

I check into the Forum these days from my wife's hospital room to see if there are any messages or specific posts directed to me.  Today, I find your post dated yesterday, June 2, 2014, dredging up and quoting one of mine back in February of this year.

You ask, "Why do I come here to read this nonsense?"

That's a damned good question and one of the more interesting points you have raised in your many recent posts.  You have obviously become somehow obsessed with this Forum, which got along quite well for a decade without the benefit of your wisdom or condescending guidance.  Why you continue to torture yourself by hanging around here, combing through the archives and posting your repetitious litany of criticism, complaints, and ad hominem attacks, when it is obvious that you are neither comfortable nor particularly welcome here, is as much a mystery to me as it would appear from your introspective question to be to you.

All I can say is that the Administrator and creator of this Forum is a very patient man. 

[JoshA]

Lol!! You asked for that one Bob. Quite elequently put Richard.

Sorry to hear your wife is still in the hospital. I sincerely hope she is recovering sir.




Note to self: remember not to be a jerk today (even though it's a certain character flaw in you). It will certainly come back to haunt you josh.

Note back to self from self: ok. Thanks for the reminder. I always tend to forget that. Also remember not to write notes to me on public forums. People will think you are nuts.

[backupr9]

Richard, +1.
JoshA, +1
Patience, children!  Let's all play nice since we are all in the same sandbox.  Post information, not angst.  No point in bitchin' and whining since it does no one a service and simply makes you look childish and petty.  It also needlessly turns a wonderful and friendly forum into a combat zone. 
Just sayin'.
Backup

ps:  I've started a thread in another section titled "Windmills" for those on the forum who really, really need to tilt at something.
Pancho Sanza

[DDGator]

I have enough information to know this was not a court-ordered sale or other involuntary action taken by creditors.  Nor am I certain there are any creditors to speak of -- other than the usual recurring stuff.

Generally speaking, the idea behind bringing in someone like Remington is to do two things: 

1) Bring an influx of capital to buy raw materials and equipment to crank up the VOLUME of production.  It take money to make guns.  It takes a lot more money to make a lot more guns.   When you can sell as many as you can make, it only makes sense to crank up the volume until demand no longer exceeds supply.

2) Bring in manufacturing expertise, technology and scale of operations to reduce the COST of each until.  When you sell lots more guns at higher profit margins, you make money.   One industry person speculated that Remington can make the same R-9 for about half of what it costs the old Rohrbaugh.  With a few tweaks, maybe a quarter of the cost or less.

Presumably, Remington was buying a name and a design that is already popular is order to make more guns, cheaper, and make a lot of money.

[bobsmith]

  I also feel they ( The Original Owners) had a fiduciary duty to the customers who had purchased their products under the representations of the warranty they offered. 

This is where we part ways.  You sell a company to a very solvent leader of the industry.  By definition, the customers and the obligations to the customers are not yours anymore.  Period.  Someone else has the legal responsibility.  I don't see any obligation, legal or ethical, on the sellers to do anything once the company is sold.  In fact, they CAN'T do anything.

Eventually we will get the whole story, but I don't assume that the owners sold the company to cash out at the peak of its value and retire to the south of  France, do you?  Perhaps there were reasons the company had to be sold.  I can't blame the previous owners one bit for what is happening now.  I can assure you that they did not see this coming.

Well that would explain why they took days to respond to my emails/phone calls back in January and February.  They clearly stalled me until it was to the point they could sign off and refuse the RMA shipment.  They may be legally in the clear now (with a good atty about anything is legal), but the business practices are totally questionable.  Who tells someone in writing to ship back a product and then refuses the delivery a week later.  If they knew this was in the works why didn't they fast track the repairs for the guys who already had active claims dated back to early January.

[DDGator]

Well that would explain why they took days to respond to my emails/phone calls back in January and February.  They clearly stalled me until it was to the point they could sign off and refuse the RMA shipment.  They may be legally in the clear now (with a good atty about anything is legal), but the business practices are totally questionable.  Who tells someone in writing to ship back a product and then refuses the delivery a week later.  If they knew this was in the works why didn't they fast track the repairs for the guys who already had active claims dated back to early January.

Yes, their grand plan was to time the sale of their company so as to catch your gun in the transition and cause you heartache.  They got you good.  That can be the only explanation.

[JoshA]

Regardless of motive (probably no motive, just dysfunctionality due to reasons we are left to only imagine about) I think we would all agree that the lack communication and service of an existing customer base is abysmal.

If someone is actually able to get word to the powers that be I think it would be appropriate to let them know their service (?) absolutely stinks.

That being said this whole thing is starting to smack of a raging beast of a company that is growing at an irrepressible rate and they don't think they have to communicate with customers. And they are probably right. They can probably run quite a long while like this and still sell guns. They are buying up companies left and right. Their customer base is exploding and I would guess that the profits are following.

Too bad.

[MRC]

   


  Heyjoe, where did you go?



   No censorship here, is there!

[JoshA]

  MRC 

What does your comment mean?

[tracker]

Jimi Hendrix song, album?