Ok... Lovin my Rohrbaugh(S)...

[Svarog]

Yes I agree with that. I also would like to add that if they can't speak about buying out deal or relocation deal, whatever it is, that's fine by me. That's not my business. That's their business, but also their business is to keep their clients happy and  satisfied while they are in the middle of relocation , restructuring  or renewal of business . And I don't see or feel that. As a matter of fact I called them so many times ,I send them emails so many times with no response at all and now I feel that I've been dumped ,left ,with the $1500 firearm that I can't shoot. And many people paid twice as much as I did for their firearms. This is just not fair to all of us and it's totally wrong.

[DDGator]

and have essentially hidden behind a sales contract and one "representative" of sorts. 

Just to be clear -- no one from the new Rohrbaugh has talked to me.  I'm just a clearinghouse for information from a lot of different sources.  When people all over the industry hear something, they drop me an e-mail and I report what I can.  I've also called the phone number and heard the recordings, and I have done some "googling" and reviews of publicly available information.  That is it.

There is no representative of the new company that has made any statement beyond the phone message.  However, they certainly aren't using their sale agreement as an excuse not to talk to their customers--they are the buyers and can do whatever they want.  They just are not saying anything to anyone publicly.  Why they are not talking to their customers, I don't pretend to know.

[Svarog]

Just to be clear -- no one from the new Rohrbaugh has talked to me.  I'm just a clearinghouse for information from a lot of different sources.  When people all over the industry hear something, they drop me an e-mail and I report what I can.  I've also called the phone number and heard the recordings, and I have done some "googling" and reviews of publicly available information.  That is it.

There is no representative of the new company that has made any statement beyond the phone message.  However, they certainly aren't using their sale agreement as an excuse not to talk to their customers--they are the buyers and can do whatever they want.  They just are not saying anything to anyone publicly.  Why they are not talking to their customers, I don't pretend to know.

+1

[C0untZer0]

I put a self-imposed moratorium on practicing with my R9, I only have 1 spring.

When I was looking to pick up a second pistol, my first thought was to get another R9, but actually - I couldn't get another R9, at least not from the factory. 

Part of the reason I purchased a CM9 was because it was so cheap but part of the reason was because of the uncertainty surrounding Rohrbaugh right now.

If I was sure that the new production facilities were going to be up and running in a certain amount of time and the new R9s were going to be high quality pistols backed with the same lifetime guarantee, then I probably would have passed on getting a CM9 and waited to purchase another R9 - but I didn't have that certainty.

[C0untZer0]

When I was initially in the market for a small 9mm pocket pistol - the actual R9 owners were the Rohrbaughs best salesmen.

I used to recommend the R9 on all the gun forums I participate in, with the caveat that the pistol is expensive.  I always told people that I thought the cost was worth it.  I could recommend the R9 because mine worked and my impression was that in general the company stood behind its product.

For most R9 owners I think there was goodwill toward the company, but I think that goodwill has been blown away.

They may stand behind their warranties, they may provide great customer service in the future, but I can't recommend that anyone purchase a Rohrbaugh - how could I make such a recommendation with the way things have been handled and the current situation?

[bobsmith]

and have essentially hidden behind a sales contract and one "representative" of sorts. 

Just to be clear -- no one from the new Rohrbaugh has talked to me.  I'm just a clearinghouse for information from a lot of different sources.  When people all over the industry hear something, they drop me an e-mail and I report what I can.  I've also called the phone number and heard the recordings, and I have done some "googling" and reviews of publicly available information.  That is it.

There is no representative of the new company that has made any statement beyond the phone message.  However, they certainly aren't using their sale agreement as an excuse not to talk to their customers--they are the buyers and can do whatever they want.  They just are not saying anything to anyone publicly.  Why they are not talking to their customers, I don't pretend to know.

I understand you're just the messenger.  I also feel they ( The Original Owners) had a fiduciary duty to the customers who had purchased their products under the representations of the warranty they offered.  I know you feel obligated to defend them for various reason, but I just don't. 

Anyway.... I'll check back in a month and see if anything exciting has transpired.  Nothing has changed for me in six months.  I've still got a jamo-matic and can't get a word back form Rohrmington.

[JoshA]

and have essentially hidden behind a sales contract and one "representative" of sorts. 

Just to be clear -- no one from the new Rohrbaugh has talked to me.  I'm just a clearinghouse for information from a lot of different sources.  When people all over the industry hear something, they drop me an e-mail and I report what I can.  I've also called the phone number and heard the recordings, and I have done some "googling" and reviews of publicly available information.  That is it.

There is no representative of the new company that has made any statement beyond the phone message.  However, they certainly aren't using their sale agreement as an excuse not to talk to their customers--they are the buyers and can do whatever they want.  They just are not saying anything to anyone publicly.  Why they are not talking to their customers, I don't pretend to know.

I don't think their is a soul out there that is blaming Duane for anything at all. Duane has reported what he knows and we all get that.

Shame on them for taking a dump on the guy heading up the best forum in the entire world about the product line they bought by not giving him ANY info at all.

Again beyond belief IMO. Just flat irresponsible.

If I were more than a wanna-be R9 lover I would be livid. As it is I'm annoyed about this patheticly irresponsible handling of a companies affairs. Annoyed. This is why people lose their jobs and we ship our business outside of the USA. Because people don't do their jobs in a way that is sensible and it costs thousands of thousands of dollars and before long the owners say, forget you people. You're lazy slobs. Out of the country I go. Or they fold up shop.

Only my opinions now based on what i imagine going on behind the scene.

If I am wrong I invite someone to correct me with reality. Please correct this thinking pattern if you have the ability to do so logically. What reasonable excuse could you offer to a voice mail that FINALLY was put in place that says to check back on May 12 and it is now June 2 with the same lame recording? Laughable!! I suppose that they didn't say which year it would be.

Or the only other thing I can imagine possible is that with the consolidation going on a more important task was placed on the individual responsible for the recording. Or perhaps he was fired during the consolidation.

I don't know. Seems like if there is something really good going on you better get while the getting is good because it surely won't last. Sounds like Rohrbaugh is virtually a thing of the past as far as the customer care and service and a mom and pop competent company is concerned.

[bobsmith]

Josh:

I post this with no intention to offend or appear to be pretentious.

1. You purchased a used R9.  Only God and the previous owner know what if any abuse was inflicted on your copy of the finest pocket pistol ever produced.

2.  I do not purport to know the grip you have used in firing your R9, but I can assure you that anything less than a firm platform (some call it "limp wristing") to absorb the recoil force of a 13-ounce pistol chambered for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge will result in FTEs, FTFs, and who the hell knows what else of a disappointing nature. 

3.  I have the 32nd R9 sold to the public, and it has never malfunctioned for me in nearly a decade of ownership and regular use (fortunately, only at the range and not in self-defense).

4.  There have been thousands of R9s produced since I took delivery of mine.  A very few have malfunctioned, mainly due to poor maintenance, neglect, or abuse from owners who expected the smallest and lightest 9mm pistol ever produced to function like some polymer gun that you could  clean by removing the slide and placing it along with the grip and receiver in the top shelf of your kitchen dishwasher.  To paraphrase posts from two of our Forum's early members, "Plastic's got no soul," and, "The R9 is the weapon of a gentleman, not that of a plowman."

5.  If you have a recurring problem with your R9, the factory will make it right.  Just be assured that complaints about the R9 are rare -- extremely rare -- compared to the thousands of pistols that are out there, functioning as they are designed to do.  Criticisms of this pistol from those who do not understand it have become a pet peeve of mine.  The R9 is approaching the status of a "cult pistol."  It deserves total respect.  Since the moment when I experienced an epiphany on my personal "Road to Damascus" at SHOT 2002 and got in line for one of the first Rohrbaugh R9s, I have never looked back.  In my pocket as I type this post is the R9 bearing serial number "132" (no "R" prefix) -- a pistol that has been my EDC since I took delivery of it in May 2004.

_____

Addendum:

Aside from the Cold War, I've been around the track a bit overseas.  I've been present during one so-called "people's revolution" in Haiti; I've sifted through  the charred remains of our Embassy in Pakistan; I've managed (by the Grace of a Benevolent God) to escape captivity in the First Liberian Civil War; and I've seen my then-existence go up in flames and violent personal abuse during a military coup d'état in Nigeria.  The one thing I wish I had been fortunate enough to have in all of those, and many more, situations in my past would have been a Rohrbaugh R9 in my pocket.  But it was not until 2004 that mankind was finally blessed with the first truly concealable pocket pistol chambered for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge.

In my seventh decade of life, my eyes grow dimmer, my enemies (those still alive) grow older, and my reflexes grow slower.  However, I finally have the perfect pocket pistol.

Now . . . if I could only turn back the unforgiving hands of time . . . .

Oh for gosh sakes.  This is your response to about anyone who isn't happy with the products.  Did you re-type this, or just cut and paste it from another thread?  I can almost type it for you by now: 

1) Used gun, been abused to death by a gorilla shooting +p+ for years.

2) This is the worlds best gun and there are no problems ever.

3)  It's your weak grip.

4) Suck it up.  This is nothing compared to hanlow POW camp.


We all know you love the gun, but let's be realistic here.  Do you really think that the only messed up ones are from user abuse? If it was so amazing why have they only been selling a few hundred a year.

Why do I come here to read this nonsense?

[DDGator]

  I also feel they ( The Original Owners) had a fiduciary duty to the customers who had purchased their products under the representations of the warranty they offered. 

This is where we part ways.  You sell a company to a very solvent leader of the industry.  By definition, the customers and the obligations to the customers are not yours anymore.  Period.  Someone else has the legal responsibility.  I don't see any obligation, legal or ethical, on the sellers to do anything once the company is sold.  In fact, they CAN'T do anything.

Eventually we will get the whole story, but I don't assume that the owners sold the company to cash out at the peak of its value and retire to the south of  France, do you?  Perhaps there were reasons the company had to be sold.  I can't blame the previous owners one bit for what is happening now.  I can assure you that they did not see this coming.

[MRC]

  I also feel they ( The Original Owners) had a fiduciary duty to the customers who had purchased their products under the representations of the warranty they offered. 

This is where we part ways.  You sell a company to a very solvent leader of the industry.  By definition, the customers and the obligations to the customers are not yours anymore.  Period.  Someone else has the legal responsibility.  I don't see any obligation, legal or ethical, on the sellers to do anything once the company is sold.  In fact, they CAN'T do anything.

Eventually we will get the whole story, but I don't assume that the owners sold the company to cash out at the peak of its value and retire to the south of  France, do you?  Perhaps there were reasons the company had to be sold.  I can't blame the previous owners one bit for what is happening now.  I can assure you that they did not see this coming.

Duane, earlier you said that the "Buyer" purchased the Rohrbaugh Company and not the Rohrbaugh Company's assets.

If that is true than they do, I would think,  have some warranty obligations unless the person, company or whom ever is doing the selling let them out of that obligation.

I still do not believe that the Rohrbaughs are the one's doing the selling.

[the_skunk]

 
It's totally infuriating.

With today's ability to 'google' anything, p*ssed  off customers should be a real concern. Especially with a $1,500 self defensew gun

[DDGator]

Duane, earlier you said that the "Buyer" purchased the Rohrbaugh Company and not the Rohrbaugh Company's assets.

If that is true than they do, I would think,  have some warranty obligations unless the person, company or whom ever is doing the selling let them out of that obligation.

I still do not believe that the Rohrbaughs are the one's doing the selling.

All of the pronouns and imprecise language make things confusing, I guess.

Rohrbaugh Firearms is a corporation that was previously owned by a number of individual shareholders, including but not limited to, Karl and Eric Rohrbaugh.  All of shares in Rohrbuagh Firearms were sold to a new buyer -- Remington, Para, Freedom Group... Whoever.

As a result, Rohrbaugh Firearms is now a wholly owned subsidiary of whatever entity took ownership of the shares.  Rohrbaugh Firearms continues to have the same warranty obligations to its customers--nothing about that has changed as a result of the change of ownership of the corporation.  However, the prior owners of Rohrbaugh Firearms have no more responsibility for, or control over, anything the company now chooses to do.

[JoshA]

Duane, earlier you said that the "Buyer" purchased the Rohrbaugh Company and not the Rohrbaugh Company's assets.

If that is true than they do, I would think,  have some warranty obligations unless the person, company or whom ever is doing the selling let them out of that obligation.

I still do not believe that the Rohrbaughs are the one's doing the selling.

All of the pronouns and imprecise language make things confusing, I guess.

Rohrbaugh Firearms is a corporation that was previously owned by a number of individual shareholders, including but not limited to, Karl and Eric Rohrbaugh.  All of shares in Rohrbuagh Firearms were sold to a new buyer -- Remington, Para, Freedom Group... Whoever.

As a result, Rohrbaugh Firearms is now a wholly owned subsidiary of whatever entity took ownership of the shares.  Rohrbaugh Firearms continues to have the same warranty obligations to its customers--nothing about that has changed as a result of the change of ownership of the corporation.  However, the prior owners of Rohrbaugh Firearms have no more responsibility for, or control over, anything the company now chooses to do.

This sounds totally correct to me Duane. One question is this... if they purchased the Rohrbaugh company wouldn't they have a legal obligation to handle warranty work or is it merely a moral obligation? I have no doubt that if the Rogrbaughs sold the company they would have obviously had a legal document that says they are not liable for blah, blah, blah X 10 being a firearm company operating in New York.

My question comes in about the new owner. You buy a company that has guns out there under warranty and they need repaired. Is there a time limit that such services should be restored or is a warranty simply a blue sky type of thing that can be Moogie Foogied around with with little or no legal ramifications? Perhaps a gray legal area. I'm sure this isn't your area of legal expertise, but I wonder if you have a feel for the truth in this matter.

[JoshA]

Also: MRC, what do you mean by the statement "I still do not believe that the Rohrbaugh's are the ones doing the selling"?

Are you referring to the other investors?

[DDGator]

There are too many levels of abstraction here for me to get my point across clearly, I think.

Josh -- Yes, the Rohrbaugh Firearms corporation has contractual warranty obligations to its customers that have not changed as a result of a change in ownership of the corporation.

If any one of you wanted to sue Rohrbuagh for refusing to honor your warranty (not totally sure they have, but that is a different issue), you could do so.

Sometimes deals are structured so that a buyer purchases only the assets of an existing company--like the patents, trademarks, customer lists, etc., but not the actual corporate entity.  Then the empty corporation is left saddled with all the debts/obligations and is allowed to enter a death spiral.  That is not the case here.  Remington, or whoever, bought the whole company -- assets and liabilities.