Why the name Pup & Ammo Recommendations

[billmc]

Hi Guys,

Just bought my R9s this past Saturday and shot it for the first time at the Gun Shop's range.  This is my first post on the site.  I've been looking through the forum about ammo recommendations.  The majority of the posts I have found are dated in 2006, six years ago, I'm wondering if anything has changed since then.  In my other pistols I've been using Winchester PDX.  Just looked at Winchester's site and the only PDX in 9mm is the 147 gr.  Other posts I've read tend to suggest staying away from the 147 gr bullet, but I don't know why?  Another question, could someone tell me the difference between the PDX and the Silvertip?  Lighter weight PDX rounds are +P, while the Silvertip is not.

Last but not least, where did the moniker Pup come from and what does it signify?

Bill

[Z]

Welcome to the forum.

I shoot 115 grain Speer Gold Dots. They have worked flawless in all the PUPs I have owned.

[Richard S]

Hi Guys,

Just bought my R9s this past Saturday and shot it for the first time at the Gun Shop's range.  This is my first post on the site.  I've been looking through the forum about ammo recommendations.  The majority of the posts I have found are dated in 2006, six years ago, I'm wondering if anything has changed since then.  In my other pistols I've been using Winchester PDX.  Just looked at Winchester's site and the only PDX in 9mm is the 147 gr.  Other posts I've read tend to suggest staying away from the 147 gr bullet, but I don't know why?  Another question, could someone tell me the difference between the PDX and the Silvertip?  Lighter weight PDX rounds are +P, while the Silvertip is not.

Last but not least, where did the moniker Pup come from and what does it signify?

Bill

Bill:

Welcome to the Forum and congratulations on your new R9.  My answers to your questions would be as follows:

1. Ammunition Recommendations:  I believe the majority of the owners around the Forum seem to prefer Speer Gold Dots in either 115 or 124 grains for their R9s. I personally load 124-grain Remington Golden Sabers in mine. The last I heard, Karl Rohrbaugh was using Winchester Silver Tips as his carry round. For range work, Winchester "White Box" FMJ is commonly used.

2. Regarding 147-grain rounds: I used to load Golden Sabers of that weight in my R9 without any problems but dropped down to 124 in order to achieve commonality with ammunition for my HK P7.  The P7's gas-retarded recoil system was designed around 115/124-grain rounds and can be thrown out of timing by the heavier load. Otherwise, I tend to believe in the "bigger rock" school of thought and don't know of any reason why 147-grain fodder should not be used for carry in the R9.

3. Finally, the term "Pup": It was coined back in 2004 by Chris ("R9SCarry"), author of the Forum's FAQ section.  Chris is a big-bore enthusiast to whom the .44 Magnum is a modest caliber.  I believe he was using "Pup" to distinguish the R9 from some of the really "Big Dogs" in his kennel.

_{[Edited to correct typos.]}

[C0untZer0]

There are people who fire the 147gr out of their R9s reliably - I asked about this because I prefer the Winchester Ranger T 147gr  RA9T.

Pretty consistently penetrates to around 14" in bare gel and different barriers:

http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/flash-SWFs/law_bullit.swf

I followed some of the threads:

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?topic=5313.msg64403#msg64403

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?topic=5453.msg65852#msg65852

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?topic=6106.msg72718#msg72718

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?topic=6089.msg72708#msg72708

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?topic=4125.msg46908#msg46908

[Griff]

 8)I thought "pup" was an acronym for Perfect Undercover Pistol. 

[Reinz]

8)I thought "pup" was an acronym for Perfect Undercover Pistol. 

Very Good! 

Welcome to the forum Griff and Billmc.

Bill- like Richard, I like big rocks as well.  I have 4 R9's that feed 147s very reliably

[theirishguard]

I carry Speer Gold Dot 124 gr. no problems at all.  Tom

[billmc]

Guys,
Thanks for all the info.  I was traveling this past weekend and bought the pistol out of town.  On the road, I noticed a bumper sticker I hadn't seen before; somehow me thinks, it might not apply in this situation, but here's what it said: "If you want to run with the big dogs, you can't pee like a puppy."  I traded and LCP for the R9.  I'm thinking the R9 isn't quit the puppy it appears to be.

C0untZer0, thanks for all those links, I read through them all, including some of the links that were in some of those threads.  They have generated a couple of more questions for you guys, though.  On one of the threads, someone mentioned they hadn't seen any data that says the 147 gr hollow point will reliably expand out of a 3" barrel, any thoughts, comments, ideas about this?

Another would be tumbling.  I read in one of those threads that early on, the bullets would tumble, as shown on a paper target by the irregular holes, but that it had been corrected (I think it was directed towards the 147 gr bullet.)  After I bought the pistol, my gal pal wanted to go shoot, so we went back to the range.  She shot my PPS 9mm, one round out of my Colt Defender (she didn't like the .45) and wasn't interested in the R9.  I had 100 rounds of Federal 9mm (maroon colored box, I think they were 115 gr, just what I happened to have hanging out in the range bag).  Most of these went through the PPS, but many of the rounds I put through the R9 had the ragged shape to them, as if they went through sideways, we were shooting at 10 yards.  Again, any thoughts?  Was it me, the round or the pistol?

My intention for this pistol is as a backup gun.  I do feel I need to put several hundred rounds through it, to ensure its reliability, so that means a spring change.  Question, how many rounds after the spring change, do you think would then suffice?  (Have any of you guys gone more than 200 rounds before changing the spring?)

Bill

[Reinz]

I did not know about 147's not opening  up in 3" guns.  Now is this ALL 147's ?  I have a hard time swallowing that line.

Even so, that does not rattle me.  The 147 is traveling slower, so even if it does not open up all the time, it WiLL then penentrate further which is a good trade off in this case.  Kind of like how dumb it is to run hollowpoints in 380's and 32's.  In those cases you NEED penetration. There is no risk of over penetration as in the more powerful calibers.  Why put brakes on an enemic round?(32/380)


As far as the Recoil spring.  One member, whom I will not  name, was doing an endurance test on the recoil spring to see how far he could go with reliable function.  His gun was doing quite well past 200.  Then someone pointed out that he was beating up his frame.  He very wisely  ceased immediately.

As far as those Federal 115's.  It appears that they don't perform adequate in YOUR gun at THAT range.  However, there is always the possibility that the bullet could stabilize and "square up" and shoot well at 15 yards, or 20 yards, or maybe further, which may or may not be of use to you for THAT gun.

[Richard S]

* * *
On one of the threads, someone mentioned they hadn't seen any data that says the 147 gr hollow point will reliably expand out of a 3" barrel, any thoughts, comments, ideas about this?

* * *

Bill:

Here is one link that might be of interest:

http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/r9s-tests-03/basefile/expand2.htm

[tracker]

Penetration and expansion is a good thing.

[backupr9]

Welcome also to Billmc and Griff from East Tennessee.  I would suggest that the most important characteristic for carry ammo would be reliability, followed by penetration and then by expansion.  I would be less concerned about tumbling at 4 to 7 yards as long as penetration is adequate (might be an issue through winter clothing)...heck, that was a positive feature of the M16 in combat.  Gold Dots and Golden Sabers work great for me, as does Federal Hydrashock, and I prefer 124gr.  Practice rounds for me are Speer Lawman, but WWB 115 work fine also.
Treat it right, grip it tight, forget the sight, carry light.  You've chosen the best pocket pistol made.
John

[Richard S]

* * *
Treat it right, grip it tight, forget the sight, carry light.  You've chosen the best pocket pistol made.
John

John:

I wish I had come up with that first sentence, and the second scores a perfect 10.   

[backupr9]

Thanks Richard.  I must say that I favor my little Seecamp when that's all I can conceal, but it runs a distant second to the R9 for power and the R9 is almost as easy to hide.  I also have great fondness for my Boberg XR9S, but for me, at least, it is an easily concealable IWB pistol and is a tad too bulky for my pocket.  All three are exceptionally engineered and exceedingly well made.  And then of course there is......oh well, you understand...
John

[C0untZer0]

Here is a Firearms Tactical Institute report on Gold Dots - specifically out of short barrels.

I thought it would be an interesting report since the R9 seems to favor Gold Dots and obviously the R9 is a short-barreled pistol.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs9.htm

The tests however were done with a 3.4" barrel