Pepper Spray selection

[Craigt]

I am hoping to tap into your collective expertise in selecting pepper spray that I want to give to my two sons fiance & girl friend.  My younger sons' girl friend will be attending veterinary school at a large urban university.  She comes from a rural-to-suburban setting.  She is small, blond and very cute though she does not think of herself as cute.  To the best of my ability we will have some "street smarts" training before she starts school in the fall. 

With that background, I want to get these beloved young women some extra protection that they have never considered carrying.  (I will be getting them some other equipment such as good flashlights as well.  I would buy them each an R9 if I thought they would train and carry them, but I don't think that is possible at this point.)

Years ago I carried a Mace brand spray.  Looks like they are still sold.  It seemed like a good design.  Could be carried in your hand without arousing much attention (does not look like a gun).  Also if needed it would be more effective in beating an attacker than a bare hand.  I never discharged one so I have no knowledge as to the spray pattern or amount of active ingredient delivered.

Any suggestions, recommendations, relevant experiences are most encouraged and welcomed.

Craig T.

[yankee2500]

Check out the Kimber pepper spray.

Here is a link to a site that sells it and a couple of videos.

http://www.safetygirl.com/kimber-pepper-blaster-ii.html?gclid=COq8kMjXnLACFYhM4AodJRibZw

[Richard S]

The pepper sprays commercially available to civilians are better than nothing, but a hopped-up "crack head" intent on mayhem may find them only mildly irritating. Anyway, John has posted one useful link. Here is another:

http://www.defensedevices.com/worhotpepspr.html

[Craigt]

Thanks for the suggestions.

For sure, no tool will work for every possible situation.  The best we can do is push the odds in our favor.

Anyone have opinions about configuration of the unit?  Gun-like vs. canister with top button (spray paint-like)?  I tend to like the configuration that does not look like a gun because it attracts less attention.  If the gun-like is more likely to deliver the pepper spray accurately & effectively then it is probably worth dealing with the added attention.

Any thoughts on which brands have the most effective active ingredients?

Craig T.

[yankee2500]

Everything I've read and a little common sense say to get the one with the longest concentrated spray distance. Most cans of spray are only good for closer range and there is the risk of it blowing back in the users face.
 I think the advantage to the pistol shaped units is the natural ease of pointing them (probably why guns are shaped like that and not like cans)
  The Kimber unit has a 13" range.

[dmunofo]

I would say that it depends on the situation and the intended use.  The canister would be better/easier to conceal in a pocket than a pistol type.    I carry my mace on my weak side and practice with deploying it that way.... so my strong side is free to go for my sidearm. 

Also, I have had to spray several people on the job, and blow back is always a factor.  You also have to worry about the "needle effect" that occurs within 5 feet, that could cause eye damage to the target.   

Having been attacked by a dog from a distance, I actually didn't go for a direct hit to the face, but tried to spray a screen in front of me hoping the dog would stop before he got too close.  Luckily it did work, and the dog stopped dead in it's tracks.   

[theirishguard]

try Fox Pepper Spray5.3 million heat units, I have the stream version not the fog.  Tom

[DDGator]

I second the recommendation for Fox Labs Pepperspray.  Very hot.  Good quality cans and such.  Good company.

[backupr9]

Ideally a can of wasp/hornet spray would be best, but too hard to carry.  Nevertheless, it makes a great bedside protection for those who can't/won't/aren't allowed to have a bedside firearm.  Shoots 10 to 13 feet or more, is quite toxic and does, in fact, contain a phosphodiesterase inhibitor which is the type of chemical used in nerve gas.

[DDGator]

I don't want to get sideways with anyone, and ultimately what we do to protect ourselves and our family is our own business...

However, I would not recommend using hornet/wasp/bug spray as a non-lethal force alternative.  Pepper spray is used by law enforcement, and is essentially safe on humans while being very incapacitating.  The potential for long lasting or permanent effects are slim.  Government agencies set the standard that pepper spray is a viable method of employing less than lethal force.

Bug spray is not tested on humans, and not recommended by anyone of authority or expertise for use on humans.  This would be the ultimate "off label" use--since spraying on a person is directly contrary to all warnings on the can.  There is definitley a potential  (I would think) for blindness or other types of permanent damage or even death.  Not to mention, it's just not designed to work on humans, so I question the effectiveness of "stopping" a threat.

We may not, in the heat of the moment, care what damage we do to someone intent on doing us harm--but there are definite liability problems with this idea.  God forbid a jury thinks you were wrong to use this level of force and you blind someone in their prime working years with a family to support.  You can't dishcarge that liability in bankruptcy, and you could be haunted for 30 years with a potential multi-millon dollar judgment.

I also wonder whether wasp spray might be considered lethal force as opposed to non-lethal?  I think it very well might be.  If so, you would be much better off using a gun if lethal force is justified.

My two cents:  don't even consider using wasp spray on people.

[backupr9]

DD, your comments are well-taken, but my intent was to offer an alternative to a shotgun or pistol for those who "cannot/will not/are not able" to use THAT form of lethal force.  Bug spray would, used with intent, very possibly constitute use of a lethal weapon, but in defense of life against a nocturnal intruder would be fully justified.  I still prefer my 12 gauge at bedside.
JB

[DDGator]

I understand, but my point is that I still wouldn't do it.  There is a good chance (I would think--I'm no doctor) that you don't kill the person, but don't stop them either.  If you don't stop them, I suspect your going to get a taste of your own medicine pretty quick.

Even if you do stop them, they may have serious ongoing medical problems when they survive.  It seems like total trouble to me, all the way around.

I'm not sure I would undestand the mentality of a person who is unwilling to use a gun, but willing to spray poison in someone's face.   It's like the people who won't use a gun but think they would be willing to cave in someone's skull with a baseball bat or golf club.  Does anyone really think that is easier or more "moral"?

Such a person would be better off buying some pepper spray.   It's likely more effective in stopping and far less likely to maim, kill or injure.

[backupr9]

If someone enters my bedroom at night uninvited, "maim, kill or injure" would be my aim and intent (hence the shotgun and the H&K .40 with streamlite).  There are people who flat won't touch a gun (and shouldn't) but who might benefit from other options.  I guarantee you that a face full of wasp spray will be more effective than the run-of-the-mill pepper spray and can be used at a greater distance and in a continuous spray for better effect.  It is not really likely to kill unless a large amount is inhaled, but hospitalization is more likely in that case, with atropine used as an antidote.  The "humor" factor of using bug spray in self defense, particularly used by a defenseless woman, would likely moderate legal consequence. 

[Craigt]

Thanks for the input.  I was hoping that my local range carried Fox but no such luck.  Will have to order.

Craig T.

[DDGator]

If someone enters my bedroom at night uninvited, "maim, kill or injure" would be my aim and intent

While this may be your intent, I would never say that.  Your right of self-defense is to use the reasonable and necessary degree of force to prevent injury to yourself (or others).  Your privilege is to stop the threat, which may involve killing or injuring or maiming.  However, an expression of that intent could take you out of the realm self-defense.