I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......

[flyandscuba]

Nice, Arne, but what is the relevance to the R-45?

Uh, as indicated in the earlier posts in this thread -- it (the XR-45) is smaller -- and probably more like the pocket 45 that many R9S owners and forum members (me included) thought the R45 was going to be...  Plus, there was a discussion of Boberg's lack of 2012 SHOT Show attendance and marketing methods...

I'm pleased that Arne felt comfortable to contribute to the discussion and address those issues/comments.

[tracker]

Right.

[flyandscuba]

Right.

Is there something that I'm missing here?  A hidden meaning or agenda?  Seriously, help me understand... Thanks.

[abboberg]

Nice, Arne, but what is the relevance to the R-45?

I was mostly addressing DDGator - I will delete my long-winded comment after he has read it.

[Richard S]

[Comment and link deleted as having been rendered moot.]

[flyandscuba]

A comment on the lack of a firing pin safety?  That didn't explain much to me.

[abboberg]

It was a "rebuttal" to my comment on a lack of firing pin safety in the R9S and my implication that it would fail a muzzle-down on concrete drop-test (based on tests I actually did with very strong firing pin return springs).

I know this is heresay, but this is what one poster said on CalCCW (who apparently had talked to one of the Rohrbaugh brothers): "The gun feels fantastic in my hands. I spoke to the owner of the company beginning of this year at the SHOT Show in Florida. He told me he will NEVER submit his guns to get drop tested and approved for Ca sales. It's too bad, he would sell a quiet a few of them I would think."

Perhaps Rohrbaugh changed its mind on drop testing since 2007.

Here is the link to the thread: http://www.calccw.com/Forums/carry-guns-ammo/1011-rohrbaugh-r9.html

I have never drop tested an R9 or R9S so I can't say for sure whether these pistols are drop safe - there may very well be some internal feature that I don't know about that blocks the firing pin.  Some clarification on this would be very helpful.

[Aglifter]

To me, the R45 felt a bit more like a Commander/P7 size gun - I could actually fit my palm on it, but it was quite compact.

It is one of the best feeling guns I've ever held, and I'm looking forward to carrying it as a belt gun - and probably shooting it in Steel Challenge - maybe action pistol.   

If you want a pocket 45, there was a 5+1 XDm at the SHOT show - about as small as a 45 is going to get.  It will be cheaper than anything anyone else is going to make in that category.  I have no desire for a 45 that small.  My father offered me his PM45, and I had no interest in that, either.  (A G36 isn't too bad, but not much different than carrying a Commander size 1911, for someone my size.) 

IMO, the pup is about as big as a pocket gun should be.  I have some pants w. very large pockets, in which I used to carry either my P7 or my 329 NG, until I put myself on a timer.

The pup can be pulled pretty quickly from a pocket, once it's "pre-staged" (loosened from its holster), even w. my freakish meat hook hands.  I could not pull the larger guns cannot be ripped out of the pocket as fast, w.o. running a strong risk of a snag. 

Essentially, there are 4 sizes of gun:

Micro - NAA minis, etc

Pocket - Pup, P3AT, Seecamp

CCW pieces - most everything called "compact", etc.

Full-Size - competition, duty pieces - things people tend to think are too large to carry, but which many people can carry w. the proper belt and holster.  (Sometime, place a 2.5" barreled revolver on top of a G17 - one is thought of as a carry piece, the other is thought of as a duty piece, but there's almost no difference in size.)

[flyandscuba]

Yes, I am familiar with a drop safety (thanks anyway Jack_F).  The comment - and it's rebuttal - still didn't indicate Tracker's comment, or lack of response to my post (or PM for that matter).  I can only surmize that comment and input by a competitor isn't appreciated on this forum...

I'm trying to understand what purpose or new innovation the Rohrbaugh R45 is supposed to add to the market as it is currently proposed.  I mean really, a relatively heavy all-metal single stack 45 with a long (although smooth if like the R9) DAO trigger?  Why will this pistol sell in the market that has a variety of on or inside the belt CCW-worthy pistols to choose from?  Simply because it has the Rohrbaugh name, will have limited production, and carry a hefty price tag?  I don't get it...

I wanted to see a true pocket carry pistol in 45 caliber.  I've played with the crude AMT Backup -- even converted a new High Standard production model to 10m Auto., looked at the Kahr PM45, but still was anxious to see what the Rohrbaugh brothers were capable of producing.  I remember discussing the R45 at the Orlando SHOT Show and first confirming it's development status on this forum as I was attending the show.  Now that I learn that the R45 was never intended to be a pocket gun, I'm disappointed -- and wish that had been indicated in my discussions at the Rohrbaugh booth on the show floor.  My G36 works fine (lighweight, reliable, accurate) for a belt carry CCW, so I'll stick with that.

Now that Arne is working on a pocket 45 design -- whether 45 GAP or 45 ACP -- I will be closely following his progress and have already indicated that I want to be on the pre-order list when it becomes open.  A true pocket pistol in .45 caliber -- the size of the Rohrbaugh R9S -- is truly innovative and will offer something to the market that has not been completely addressed in my opinion.  His use of a rotating barrel lock-up will aid in taming the preceived recoil of such a large bore pocket pistol.

Competition is a good thing! 

[tracker]

Fly,

Just for the record and to close the loop, we have communicated on this issue on a PM.

[Heber_Guy]

Fly,
I agree.
Heber Guy

[tracker]

Rohrbaugh is approaching an eight year track record; this is not an easy business.

[Jack_F]

Rohrbaugh is approaching an eight year track record; this is not an easy business.

Not easy for sure..I ordered my first R9 on  8/10/04....doesn't seem that long ago....

[DDGator]

Guys I'm travelling again this week and internet access is an issue. So I am catching up when I can...

A few quick points.

The response to the R45 at the show was overwhelmingly positive and there is a long list of interested dealers. 

Im not sure every new product has to fill a unique niche.  It's hard to do that on a recurring basis. But, I don't think there is a DAO .45 compact pistol on the market that is of the quality Rohrbaugh will produce.  It will not be inferior to comparably priced pistols by Baer, Brown or Wilson.

I don't personally like the vibe that Rohrbaugh screwed up this project. This is what Karl wants to do. This is his concept for an R45.  He can still sell every R9 he makes - so that's not an issue.  It may not be what everyone wants, but neither is the R9.

I don't mind hearing about the Boberg guns, and Arne is welcome to post here. But, I don't find him to be a marketing genius because he is considering a pocket 45 at some point in the future...  The innovation of his gun is all about reducing size. It makes perfect sense for him to do and I hope it works out. More guns is always a good thing.

As for the drop test. I'll ask Karl what he meant - assuming he said that. I think it's out of context. I think that reflects Karl's dislike for California and excessive government intervention - not a concern over his pistols passing a drop test.  Its very expensive to even get your guns approved in CA.  It's understandable that small companies can't justify the cost versus the benefit.

[MRC]

Quote from DDGator
     
   " I don't personally like the vibe that Rohrbaugh screwed up this project."

I do not think they did either.  I hope that they are very successful with it.  I think where the problem was is when you announce something and let speculation run wild on what it is, and not clear up what the plans are early on.  I feel the way it was introduced was their only mistake.  No one likes Rohrbaughs better than the members here but I think you let them down.

Lets face it, this forum helps sell a lot of guns for you guys.

Just my opinion.