What's your R9's round count?

[kjtrains]

I'm thinking as the spring gets smaller, you're not going to know the point at which damage is occurring; then woo la; too late.

[Reinz]

You mean, too small.  Remember you still have the stiffness factor.

Also the somewhat "safety factor" of the dual captive springs.

I said - "somewhat".

[kjtrains]

I'm just going to change at 200 rds everytime and not worry about it; others can do what they might.  Seems the way to go, at least for me; wait a minute.  I don't count the rounds; just guestamate; works so far.

[Reinz]

I agree with you.

I was also going along with Relic/P7   , as far as a "test" was concerned.

[kjtrains]

Yep.  Good thing to do.  Thanks!    

[Relic]

KJ, I think that's prudent and sound thinking.
Don't let anyone tell you different.

I've shot many firearms, including many antiques and war relics.  Some of these firearms have had untold #'s of rounds and the springs are older than I am.  I have a methodical, careful method to my madness.  I always strip and inspect before shooting.  If something looks or feels wrong, I won't shoot it.

But, since you've got me thinking about it, I'll dig out my old home-made spring test rig and measure the old spring against the new one.  I just used it to test a WWII Walther PPK .32 recoil spring not too long ago.  Owner didn't want to replace any parts unless absolutely required.  Great little gun, original flap holster and a field-expedient repair to the grip.  Looks like it took some shrapnel or other sharp impact.  It shot fine, by the way.  He also had a war-trophy Walther M-9 .25 that  was in beautiful condition.  Crazy what some of those German officers carried.  Even that .32 PPK is hardly a combat weapon, but a .25  seems like an odd choice for a pistol in a war zone.  But I digress.  (I will post some pictures if anyone has a hosting site)

Springs aren't hard to test, a digital scale and a simple rig will do.  You're measuring spring pressure at a given deflection. (Say 20 pounds at 3/4" or similar)  Most handgun springs deflect at fairly low weights so they are easy to work with.

[DTM_39]

I have approx 600 rounds through my pup and I have never had a hicup.  However a friend of mine wanted to shoot my R-9 .  He was interested in buying one.  He couldn't get through a single mag without a ftf.  This gun was not for him.  He bought the Rohrbaugh 380 and he loves it.  My R-9 continues to hum for me and everbody who has fired it since.

[Reinz]

Glad your friend did not give up on the Rohrbaugh brand.

At least he can handle the 380 and still have the precision- and reliability.


In the American Rifleman test of quite of few 380's, the R380 was the only one without any malfunctions.

[DTM_39]

I have an early R-9 and  one of the first 380's.  Both have been 100% for me.  The 380 gets most of the playtime.  But the R-9 gets its work in.

[backupr9]

Relic, I would be interested in your findings re:  spring testing.  Altho stiffness and length may not be correlated, it seems intuitively likely that a spring that has shortened will have also lost tension, at least over the distance that has been lost through shortening. Actual measurements of tension vs. length and of tension change correlated with length change would be interesting.  The last few times I've shot, I've put about 60 to 80 rounds of silver tip and 124 Gold Dot, and noted 1/4 inch shortening at cleaning time....I carry this regularly, so for $5 I just go ahead and change the spring rather than take a chance.  From my point of view, I worry about damage to the piece only inasmuch as the fact that the damage might cause a malfunction at a very inopportune time.  When we go to the range, an occasional FFF doesn't seem too worrisome, but it could be life-threatening in the event of actual need.

[Relic]

I haven't had time to find/reassemble my spring test rig, but I intend to do so ASAP.  I've now put 340 rounds through the R9 with that same spring.  (I carry it with a new spring and switch to the old one for range shooting)  It's still behaving quite normally and the spring is still pretty stiff.  I can't tell a difference by feel, but feel is only a cursory check, a deflection/weight measurement is the only acceptable test.

I did have one failure with a new shooter on round #337 (WWB 115gr).
A petite lady, I'd guess 5'2" and 110lb, who had never shot a pistol,  really wanted to try, even after a friendly warning that the R9s recoil was a bit more stout than many other pistols.

After a bit of grip training, she fired 5 rounds with good control, but on her 6th and last round in the mag, the R9 flipped up in her hand.  She said she had loosened her grip and claimed, "I think that was my fault".  The round nose dived into the edge of the feed ramp, the R9s first FTF.  Still, she did quite well placing 5 rounds on target and was very pleased.

The last 4 rounds left  fired without issue, but we were out of practice ammo at that point.

[yankee2500]

It's not so much the failure of the gun when the spring gets past 200 rounds but the extra pounding on all the moving components that is an issue.

[Richard S]

It's not so much the failure of the gun when the spring gets past 200 rounds but the extra pounding on all the moving components that is an issue.

Well stated, John!

I've long owned and driven sports cars, purchasing the first one in 1956. Each one of them came equipped with a tachometer on which the highest revolutions were highlighted in red. The red was there for a reason. I know that because in 1973 I "red lined" my "rocket du jour" and blew the engine.

So it is with "pocket rockets."

[Relic]

I have to disagree there my friends.  While I do understand your thoughts on the matter and am respectful of your views.

Round count is a poor indicator of wear, it simply is an easy out.  If the spring is in spec, the spring is in spec, and round count matter's not.

For example, if the minimum spring rating is 15lbs, with 5000 rounds of use if it's at 16lbs it's still not "redlined" (to use the tachometer reference)  Measuring is the only way to determine if a part is within specifications. Be that a spring, bore, headspace, etc.

However, if you don't care to bother with finding the factory spring specs and measuring the springs, then the only option you have is to use round count, as poor a method as it is.

But I do agree that if the only method you use to determine spring wear is round count, then you need to err on the side of caution and use the factory recommended replacement schedule.

[tracker]

I don't use round count either but just compare the old spring with a new one and use the old Mark I Mod 0 eyeball. Very unscientific but close enough for me at about one turn or so.