Need your input please

[ACP]

Attention Seecamp Owners:

Please share with us the number of times your Seecamp has shipped from Milford with a barrel, (or any other defect), in which the factory 1). Attempted to buy back the gun or 2). Proclaimed the problem as moot.

Hey!; it's just a pocket gun and this doesn't matter, right?

[kjtrains]

Rick,
  Maybe someone would be willing to trade you barrels.  

 

[yankee2500]

 Like I stated before the tooling marks shouldn't be there and  needs to be addressed by the factory because it is a problem. But if the factory said there looking into it we'll have to take them at there word and until we have there final decision we can live with what we have or sell it and get something with no tooling marks.
  For me until someone can produce data that indicates it adversely effects the performance of the bullet at self defense distances or has caused a catastrophic failure, it doesn't matter (to me) and is purely cosmetic.
  

[coyote]

i agree ACP









.

[Joe_from_NY]

Attention Seecamp Owners:

Please share with us the number of times your Seecamp has shipped from Milford with a barrel, (or any other defect), in which the factory 1). Attempted to buy back the gun or 2). Proclaimed the problem as moot.

Hey!; it's just a pocket gun and this doesn't matter, right?

Well, to get back on topic and actually give a responsive answer, for me, the answer would be zero times.  They did work on two of my guns, with one being 20 years old, and they did a superb job on both. On the newer one, they replaced it for a different problem that they noticed that i never complained about. They fixed my issue, which was the hammer strut pin that walked out of place, and then they noticed some other reason that the gun was out of spec., so they just sent me a brand new gun. On my older .32 , they replaced a cracked slide and even sent me two new magazines to go with the gun, since the mag. style changed over 20 years. All at no charge. They are truly awesome and customer satisfaction is apparently their number one priority. I must say though, that each gun took over a year to get back, but i believe that had to do with the ammo shortage of 2009.

Although I would also say that it would almost seem that there is more to your question than meets the eye.

[RickP]

Rick,
  Maybe someone would be willing to trade you barrels.  

Tempting, but no. I'm just going to put on my big boy pants and deal with it.

Rick

[yankee2500]

Over a year to get back. WOW

    How happy would all the owners with tooling marks be if they sent there R9s in and had to wait over a year to get them back.

[DDGator]

To address a few common themes:

I don't think it's fair to say the factory is dismissive of this issue or sweeps it under the rug.  They have said this is not unusual and is a product of their rifling method.  Sounds to me like they can't necessarily replace your barrel with a perfect one at this point.

So why is it dismissive or underhanded to buy back the gun?  They have a customer who is unhappy and they can't fix the problem for them.  So now they offer to buy back a gun and take a several hundred dollar loss just to keep the customer happy.  What more could they possibly do?  How many other gun companies have EVER paid cash to buy back a gun?  There may be some, but I am not aware of them.  I think it's unbelievably good customer service.  They could just tell you the gun is to spec and there is nothing they can do.  But, they would rather take the loss than have the unhappy customer.

If the factory is guilty of anything, it is not understanding just how big an issue this is to a small group of their customers.  That being said, they have promised to address this issue and will let me know what they are doing.

As I take a deep breath, I would just say the following--as I have in the past.  Eric and Karl are friends of mine.  They care deeply about their products and their customers.  I would appreciate everyone treating them fairly and not disparaging the integrity of the company over this issue.

[ACP]

Well said, Duane, and I am backing out of this issue. Selling out? No. But I am, after all, an R9 partisan and it is fair minded to allow the factory to properly address this issue.

As I write this my cherished Robar R9 is at the factory being repaired due to my slide having "frozen" following a recent  problem encountered at the range this past week. Maria, as is well documented in these pages, is the best in the business.

The root cause of the barrel issue bothers me but it is senseless to overlook the well documented customer service that mitigates this concern.

[Joe_from_NY]

And now that i reread the original post, it would seem like you are almost complaining that the company bought the gun back. That is pretty good service in my opinion. You are free then to either buy another brand, or look down the barrel of the next R9 you buy to check it first. The buyback seems to be the best solution if the factory is not equipped to have the tooling available to ensure that their barrels don't leave the factory in a certain aesthetic condition.

[DDGator]

For what it's worth, I don't think the factory can buy back the guns of anyone who decides now they don't like the tool marks...lest they go out of business entirely. So...I would temper any expectations of that going forward.

[Joe_from_NY]

For what it's worth, I don't think the factory can buy back the guns of anyone who decides now they don't like the tool marks...lest they go out of business entirely. So...I would temper any expectations of that going forward.

yeah, i meant the best solution in his case. it is clearly unfeasible to expect the company to buy back every gun as a matter of policy.

[Joe_from_NY]

after looking at the photos in the first post, it occurred to me that for the intended purpose and range of these guns, they could have smooth bores, thereby avoiding the chatter issue, and i would still buy one.

[Richard S]

I've been watching this thread with some interest and have now decided to add my two cents worth.

First, I should state that the lands and grooves in the barrel of my Farmingdale R9 are as shiny as polished glass. If there were any tool marks in the barrel when I took delivery of the pistol in May 2004, I didn't see them, and I use a bore light whenever I clean the gun. If there were originally any tool marks that I overlooked, they must have been removed by the process of "shooting/cleaning/shooting/cleaning, etc., etc.

Second, I agree with Duane that this is a cosmetic issue. He has stated that the factory is aware of the matter and is looking into it. Even internal cosmetic issues are important to Rohrbaugh.

Third, I suggest that there is a simple and inexpensive DIY solution out there for anyone who perceives any tool marks in the barrel of his R9 -- one that is used by some of the top-tier shooters in preparing their firearms for competitition.  Here is a link to the product:

http://www.davidtubb.com/ff-kit-38-9mm-cal

And here is some additional reading on the subject from the product's web site:

[size=10]Superior Shooting Systems Inc. FinalFinish Bore Conditioning System represents a significant advancement in the enhancement of firearm performance. It's a better barrel in a box!

FinalFinish is an easy, do-it-yourself process that will give the barrel on your firearm a more uniform and polished bore. This will allow you to increase velocity, reduce fouling, make cleaning easier, and, most importantly, the successive application of the five different FinalFinish compounds will improve the quality of the barrel.

* * *

When any barrel is made -- custom or production -- it first has to be drilled. As with any cutting tool, the drill leaves behind its signature: tool marks. Tool marks are blemishes that remain in the metal surface as the result of disruption to the metal. The rifling process then adds more tool marks and imperfections, regardless of the rifling system used (hammer-forged included). These marks normally run in the opposite direction the bullet travels, creating "speed bumps" the bullet must negotiate: a bumpy ride down the barrel which ends in a bumpy flight to the target. Plus, the corrugated and unpolished surface of most barrels creates friction. This friction snags and abrades the bullet jacket, and the rough surface collects firing residue as well as bullet jacket material (fouling).

FinalFinish eradicates most all of these tool marks and leaves a lapped surface in its place.

Since even the most precisely manufactured barrels cannot be made perfect, variations in bore diameter can and do occur. Variations in bore diameters can ultimately mean variations in land (rifling) measurements, and it's the lands that drive the bullet. Bore diameter variations can be significant. FinalFinish greatly improves the uniformity over the full length of the barrel. While it is possible for a skilled gunsmith to hand-lap your factory barrel, it won't be cheap and you must cut and re-crown the muzzle. You can get most of the beneficial effects yourself in one morning at the range using FinalFinish. * * * FinalFinish is designed to improve . . . factory barrels. It will produce dramatic improvements in these barrels. The improved polish and smoothness will allow you to increase velocity and reduce fouling. This means that more rounds can be fired without accuracy deterioration. (Some of the most impressive results with FinalFinish have come in factory-barreled handguns. Our test firearms showed an average of 60-percent smaller groups! Lead bullet shooters especially will find much easier clean up too.) [Emphasis supplied.]

* * *[/size]          

Finally, here is a link to some information on the man behind the product:

http://www.davidtubb.com/about-david-tubb

Meanwhile, for any of you out there who are reading this thread and considering the purchase of a Rohrbaugh R9, I sincerely suggest that you can do so in the sure and certain knowledge that you are purchasing the smallest, lightest, and most carefully machined and assembled full-house 9mm pocket pistol yet designed and marketed.

R out.

[MRC]

A word of caution.  I asked Eric (through Maria) about lapping these tool marks.  His reply was that they are too deep and trying to lap them out would render the barrel out of spec and useless.  This Eric's answer not mine.

I have used Tubb's fire-lapping technique on several rifles and a revolver.  I have never used it on a semi auto pistol.  This is a good product, but is designed to polish an already smooth barrel.  The tool marks it removes can only be seen with a bore scope.  I don't think you can hurt these barrels with this product, but it is not going to remove these tool marks in my opinion.  It could possibly help the cleaning problem that I have with my R9.

I am keeping my R9 the way it is.  Being familar with this process, I would not use it on my pistol.