Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rounds.

[garymass]

Yeah man, for real. I was at the range today, and a guy handed me his Kel Tec 9mm to look at. The tolerances are so loose, that when you shake it in your hand, the parts rattle around sounding like a pocket full of loose change. I showed him my R9, and he couldn't believe how close the fit of the parts was. Then he saw my Seecamp 380 on the table, and said, "Wow, you really have the Rolls Royce of pistols with these two."  

In my opinion, the Kel Tec 9mm really looks like a cheap piece of junk up close, and handling it will make clear the differences. It reminded me of the Bryco, Jennings, Davis, Lorcin, Hi-Point, etc... junk guns that used to be all over the streets of the city in the '80s and early '90s. Exploding pieces of crap, more reliably useful as hand grenades.

******************************************************

Thats great, yea that was the craze for awhile every bad guy had a piece of crap gun then they thought they were great when the tec-9 came out.

[kjtrains]

Joe.  Thanks for the photos.  Really makes you think of the stuff out there; quite amazing!

[Reinz]

deleted

[kjtrains]

OK!    

[flintsghost]

Haven't been here in a while.  This thread did surprise me.  Not only am I a retired LEO but also was for many years the chief firearms instructor for the state agency.  I'm also a former owner of a Kahr PM9 which I gave a tryout to before deciding on a R9S for myself and got one for my offspring.   We both carry them and I put mine on daily and while I have left the property without it, that is very rare.

The 6 rd group I fired out of my son's when first it arrived was published on this forum complete with pics and it surprised even me out of a pistol like an R9S.  However the PM9, that I had was another story altogether and would not equal the performance which the R9s's we have are producing.   I never carried the PM9 and it now belongs to someone else and they like it just fine.   At that time my carry was a Colt Defender .45acp and a SIG 239 .40 and they continued to be until the R9s proved to be as reliable and capable as it did.   Since then  the R9s has been with me everyday.    I trust it completely.

As to pistols that rattle or don't, that really isn't an acceptable standard for a defensive sidearm.   I have a small accumulation of  WW2  1911A1's that are unmodified in any way and all saw some service after manufacture.  Some more than others but all to some degree.   Each rattles when shaken and not just a small amount.   They, as a breed, are famous for the rattles and reliability.   My Colt defender and my SIG 239 both rattle to some degree and I know they both work reliably.    The fact the R9s doesn't wasn't even a slight consideration when I bought them.   The accuracy and reliability was.   I didn't have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to figure out my R9S wasn't designed to be shot a lot at any one outing or that other pistols were better suited for longer range work.   The very first time I saw a picture of one I figured that out...and without help too.      I think "opinions" are like a well known part of the human anatomy...everyone's got one.   That's fine and the only one that matters to me is my own.   I think each of us has the right to think what we want and I don't expect anyone to agree with me.  

On the other hand I believe through experience, dealing with the public at large, that included more than my share of pin heads,  that Ron White is correct when he says that you can fix almost anything but, "You can't fix stupid."

[backupr9]

Hope I offended no one with comments about my Keltec PF9...it did rattle when shaken, a mark of looser tolerances and probably a characteristic that would allow it to tolerate more soiling and loose dirt without FFF than the Rohrbaugh would allow.  My dislike of the pistol was based on a longer trigger travel than I could use for aimed fire and the fact that it jammed too frequently for me to trust it.  With close up snap fire patterns it did OK and the trigger pull was not then an issue.  It was traded for those reasons, but because of the looseness and I do think Keltec does a good job for the price with its products.

My U.S. Army issue 45 also rattled badly when shaken, but was nevertheless functional.

[yankee2500]

The only one with any real right to take offense of your comments is whoever owns the company or maybe someone who makes them.
 I have never owned or shot a Keltec but have handled several and based on how they look and feel I have no desire to own or shoot one.
  As buyers of firearms we all have our own prospective of the products worthiness and value for our intended use after examining it or trying it out. Lets face it not every gun is for everyone, I've read on here and elsewhere of owners not liking the R9, so be it, to each his own. If you like Keltecs thats great if you hate Chevys thats fine too.  

[Relic]

Kel Tec's are ugly as sin, with the fit and finish of a Harbor Freight power tool, but every one I've shot was reliable and they are bargain priced.  I've owned two Kel Tec rifles and two P3ATs.

All are very reliable, but the mag release on the P3ATs was far to easy to depress and they would drop their mag's in my pocket or when drawing.  That's not good for a carry pistol, but it was fun to shoot.

Fun guns at a fair price, but I prefer other options for a defensive firearm.

[Joe_from_NY]

While looking at busted guns, for full disclosure, i must add this photo of my Seecamp .32 .  This occurred at about 25 rounds on my first range trip after i bought it used. It was almost 20 years old, and i clearly dont know the history (of abuse) of the gun. But as expected, i called up Seecamp, and with no questions whatsoever asked, Larry said  "Yeah, OK, send that gun back to us and we will take care of it." He replaced the slide, and machined the pistol to bring it up to their modern production standards, along with a new magazine (for those of you who own an a LWS32, note the mag base plate, and how the design has changed over time). All covered under warranty. That is customer service beyond reasonable expectations, for an owner who-knows how far down the line from the original.

[ccoorreeyy]

Thats Larry!  

[Relic]

I've never seen a "blown up" Seecamp before.  
That kind of warranty service on a 20yo firearm is why Seecamp is know as a premier firearms manufacturer.

How about a picture of the repaired pistol just in the interests of gun pron.  

[Reinz]

That is Outstanding Service- that can not be topped !

[Reinz]

BTW - assuming that it is not a custom serial #, being #21, it really would be an early model for sure.

[Joe_from_NY]

BTW - assuming that it is not a custom serial #, being #21, it really would be an early model for sure.

Nah, you can see where i loaded the photo into Microsoft Paint, and copied and pasted a swatch of blank gun color over the last three digits of the serial number. It was 021xxx.

[kjtrains]

That is Outstanding Service- that can not be topped !

I can certainly vouch for the service of Seecamp having had a hammer to lock up;

Started to shoot a mag yesterday and fired the first rd and it jammed locking the hammer back.  The hammer stayed locked back.  Larry seemed to know exactly what was wrong and said, send it back, when I talked to him first thing this morning.  

Ahhh!  The Seecamp .380 ships tomorrow, all repaired, and will deliver Wednesday; has been repaired for a couple weeks now, just waiting for me to tell them when to ship.

Happy days are here!

Update:  The .380 did arrive on Wednesday, 8/11/10, with new grips, new springs, and three extra recoil springs; all is well.