Author Topic: R9 News Flash...!...  (Read 19020 times)

Offline logical

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Re: R9 News Flash...!...
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2005, 10:09:36 PM »
Wayne-

Why does tha satalite photo freak you out.  If you have my address, you can stop by...no need to use a satalite.

And while I think we all already knew that a picture I post of a gun on the net can be traced to me...the real question is whether it is a big deal or not that others know my gun's serial number.  If you knew my car's VIN number...so what?    My gun doesn't have any credit cards or bank accounts to steal.   Knowing it's number doesn't somehow make you the owner....so just what's the big deal?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2005, 10:10:10 PM by logical »

Offline Richard S

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Re: R9 News Flash...!...
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2005, 10:40:35 PM »
I really don't worry much about who knows what firearms I own.  Here are some of the reasons:

CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Preamble.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 * * *

Amendment I - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II - Right to bear arms.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

***

Amendment IV - Search and seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Keep the faith and stay the course.  (And by the way, are your NRA dues up to date?)

RS
« Last Edit: May 29, 2005, 10:50:53 PM by Richard_S »
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Offline Wayne

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Re: R9 News Flash...!...
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2005, 01:22:09 AM »
Quote
Wayne-
 
Why does tha satalite photo freak you out.  If you have my address, you can stop by...no need to use a satalite.
A satellite photo of my backyard doesn't freak me out.  It's the fallacy that many people hold that simply because they are on the Internet using an alias login that they are invisible and they don't need to be protective of their personal information, gun serial numbers included.  Personal information is like dominos:  once the first bit is derived, the next detail falls, then the next, and so on.

Without going into exactly how this is accomplished, suffice it to say that no one has to have your address as a starting point to get to your house.  Simply playing with information publicly available to the "average Joe" on the Internet can yield a set of driving directions to your house, and detailed pictures of your landscape (complete with trees and out buildings).

Generally speaking, may people are surprised at the amount of information that is freely available, hacking and screw ups (e.g. the ChoicePoint fiasco) notwithstanding.

If you go to your county's web site, there is a good chance that you can look up your own ( or your neighbor's ) property tax assessment including lot size, square footage of house, and taxes paid over the previous years.  If the county doesn't have this, one can whittle away at the lexis-nexis database (although you must pay for some services).

I don't know if anyone here recalls this, but several years ago, the Edgar archives (SEC Filings Database) provided Bill Gates social security number on one of Microsoft's public filings.  While this is arguably one of the richest men of our time, he didn't know his personal information was available until it was misused.

On a dare, I was able to give a teacher with an unlisted phone number information about his last 6 cities of residence (over 3 states), his current address, round trip mileage to his job, and the name of his subdivision block captian.  It took less than 20 minutes and I didn't pay a dime.  Although I didn't provide him with the satellite pictures of his back yard, believe me, he was very freaked out.   ;)

YMMV.

All I'm saying is that the same thing is possible with posting a picture, or posting an opinion, or doing anything else on the Internet.  If someone wants to afford themselves the privacy of not showing their serial number, one has to respect that.

Quote
And while I think we all already knew that a picture I post of a gun on the net can be traced to me...the real question is whether it is a big deal or not that others know my gun's serial number.  If you knew my car's VIN number...so what?    My gun doesn't have any credit cards or bank accounts to steal.   Knowing it's number doesn't somehow make you the owner....so just what's the big deal?

Your gun serial number is very much different from your VIN.  As an example of "worst case" abuse, let's suppose that someone who didn't like you very much was able to acertain that you had an R9 serial number "Rxxx".  Agreed, that in itself is no big deal.  Now let's take a big, scary step further.  That person calls the police and states the following:

"I was threated at gunpoint by [insert your name here].  He was even so brazen as to stick the gun in my mouth and shout at me while I was held here for hours.  I was so terrified for my life that I'll never forget the serial number Rxxx.  That's why I called 911.  Thank God you're here!"

Now I think we can all agree that this is not a situation any of us would want to have to defend, so why take the chance?  Now I'm not a police officer, but I would imagine the first order of business after you are taken into custody will be to verify the story by checking for an R9 with the matching serial number.  After that, I imagine it's pretty much an uphill (and expensive) climb for the defense.  And, granted, that's a pretty extreme example.  But again, I'm not the most sinister mind in the world, so I'm sure there are others who can do much worse.

While I am a faithful supporter of the Constitution, I'm not sure how it is going to protect me in this case.  In this example, I have sowed the seeds of my own demise by unnecessarily providing too much personal information.  While I agree with Richard that perhaps knowlege by others of what guns I own isn't necessarily a bad thing, I don't believe that anything good can come of offering a published record of owners to serial numbers.

By the way, this doesn't have so much to do with the Constitution, but rather the freedom of information.  Where this may become a constitutional issue is in what is done with the information by agents of the government.  Keep in mind, all of these examples utilize civilian systems, -the government can do much better!  Use prudent judgement in what you chose to publish for all the world to see.

This is precisely why I keep my NRA dues paid, and my personal information close to the vest.  ;)

Offline theirishguard

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Re: R9 News Flash...!...
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2005, 04:26:52 AM »
With all this ability to find out who is who on the internet, why can't they find who is sending out the computer viruses and  worms?
Tom Watson, DVC , Quis Separabit ,  Who dares wins, Utrinque Paratus

Offline Wayne

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Re: R9 News Flash...!...
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2005, 10:22:47 AM »
I'll answer your question with a question.  A few weeks ago, a relative of mine had her purse stolen, -even caught it on tape.  The police officer didn't seem to be overly concerned about the crime and the guy was never pursued.  Over the following days, the thief even used her credit cards.  Why hasn't he been caught?

I get notifications every day at work that an email was rejected because it contained a virus.  It even has the email address of the sender (granted, the email address of a sender can be easily made up).

The common denominator is human behavior.  There is always an economic trade off to be made when considering any action.  By economic, I don't just mean financial, but also effort vs. result, risk vs. reward, etc.  I guess in some cases, it is less of a hassle to block a crime or provide a barrier than it is to pursue the issue at it's root.  That's the underlying concept not only behind all those buildings downtown with bars on the windows, but also the anti-virus software running on all our computers.

No disrespect intended to anyone in law enforcement.

Offline RJ HEDLEY

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Re: R9 News Flash...!...
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2005, 12:41:15 PM »
My Serial number?  I have Photo Shop..    ;D
RJ=


 
 

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: R9 News Flash...!...
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2005, 03:28:24 PM »
Haha - me too RJ - well an equivalent.

All RJ's guns have S/N ''RJ-123456''  ;D
Chris - R9S
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ccoorreeyy

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Re: R9 News Flash...!...
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2010, 10:05:44 AM »
I wish the R9 registry that was being talked about on the first page of this thread had gotten started back then!  I would still LOVE to see it happen and would not mind giving a donation to help get it started.  It really would "help" when trying to figure out how early a pup is.  DD can you ask the brothers about this?
Corey

ps.  yea, i'm still on the hunt for "that" early one!

Edited to add:  Even if it was just for all the Farmingdale guns that would be SO nice.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 10:08:36 AM by ccoorreeyy »

Offline Brenden

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Re: R9 News Flash...!...
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2010, 12:08:18 PM »
Corey,
You like bringing up these oldies eh!!! ;)

I think that some of the owners do not like to give up their #s cause of being leary about what someone can/may do with them..

Things can be found out about what one has..

There are a few shopped #s floating around out there also..
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Offline yankee2500

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Re: R9 News Flash...!...
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2010, 12:24:13 PM »
Quote
Corey,
You like bringing up these oldies eh!!! ;)

I think that some of the owners do not like to give up their #s cause of being leary about what someone can/may do with them..

Things can be found out about what one has..

There are a few shopped #s floating around out there also..

Also I sure some would worry about being harassed by people wanting to purchase it. (Corey, not directed at you.) But there are people out there that will contact you any way they can to try and get you to sell something they really want. With all your information available on the internet for a few dollars (home and cell number, address, e-mail address) and you can get most of it free if you know were to look.

John  
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Offline kjtrains

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Re: R9 News Flash...!...
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2010, 12:29:23 PM »
Corey.  You can handle it, right!    ;D
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

ccoorreeyy

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Re: R9 News Flash...!...
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2010, 01:05:07 PM »
I was not thinking about having any owner info, just the order they come out of the factory along with what color frames, which grips , etc they came with.  That way you could make a more informed decision about things if/when buying a early Rohrbaugh pistol.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 02:31:08 PM by ccoorreeyy »

ccoorreeyy

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Re: R9 News Flash...!...
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2010, 02:28:50 PM »
Quote

Also I sure some would worry about being harassed by people wanting to purchase it. ([glb]Corey, not directed at you[/glb].) John  

 ;D  It's more than likley a good thing I don't know who has all the early ones!  My wallet would NOT be my friend.


Offline kjtrains

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Re: R9 News Flash...!...
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2010, 06:40:25 PM »
I know there's someone out there that has an R9 with serial no. under 130, no R prefix, that wants to sell.  You know you do.  Just do the PM thing!    :)    ;)  
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline imthduke

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Re: R9 News Flash...!...
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2010, 05:15:57 PM »
One that went rogue.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 05:17:26 PM by imthduke »