R9s - Light primer strikes?

[mjrodney]

My new R9s has 300 rounds through it with no failures to fire to date......however.....compared to other 9mms I've used, the primer strikes from the Rohrbaugh seem to be very light.

The link to a photo shows two rounds at the top from my R9s and two rounds at the bottom from two other 9mm handguns.

On the R9s, you can see a tiny dimple from the R9s' firing pin, surrounded by a ring of raised distortion...almost like an overpressure situation.

Although the photo is of RP ammo, the same thing occurs with WWB.

Although my R9s has never failed to fire a round, these primer strikes still seem light to me.

Normal? Is this what others are seeing with their Rohrbaugh's?

IMG]http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s41/mjrodney/RsprimerstrikesStandarde-mailview.jpg[/IMG]

[theirishguard]

try Gold Dot or Winchester Silver Tip.   Tom

[mjrodney]

I have used the Gold Dots with the same result.

Just a moment ago, I packed up some of my spent brass that show the light looking strikes, and sent them off to Rohrbaugh by priority mail for their inspection.

I'll post what they say after they get back to me.

[rtmoore4]

I just sent my R9S back to Rohrbaugh for them to take a look at for the same issue.  Mine was experiencing many FTF (one out of every six, on average) with several different types of ammo, though.  If you all of yours are firing, you're in much better shape than I was.  

Your fired brass looks identical to mine.  It looks to me like even when the round goes off, the pin isn't imbedded very far, thus allowing the bulge around the perimeter of the pin strike, from the pressure of the round.  The bolt prevents the rest of the case from expanding and you are left with this image that looks like a droplet of water hitting a pool, frozen in time.

It does appear like this could be an issue for them, as this topic has come up a lot recently.  I mentioned either a short firing pin or a weak hammer spring as being concerns of mine in another thread.  I'd suggest maybe a heavier firing pin might fix it, but then you would need a stronger hammer spring to strike it and who knows if there is enough room in there for that?  Of course, I'm not a gunsmith or gun designer, so I really don't know what might be the root cause.  I sure hope they find it and fix it though.

[mjrodney]

Much to the credit of Rohrbaugh Firearms, Karl Rohrbaugh took the time to call me personally to discuss the spent cartridges I sent to his company for review.

In his opinion, Remington ammunition is a poor match for the R9, due to production ammo showing a variation in 3 areas; bullet diameter, overall length, and hard primers.

I can accept the fact that the R9, being the specialized firearm that it is (i.e. highly compact for the caliber), it would have particular likes and dislikes.

It was Karl Rohrbaugh's recommendation that I switch to Corbon DPX loads, 80 grain solid copper hollow points. Rohrbaugh Firearms has worked directly with Corbon to ensure that this round is a perfect match for the R9's inherent dimunitive geometry.

He also stated that there should be no need for a break in period on the R9, and that my current round count of 420+ is more than he has through his own R9.

I would speculate that due to the very small size of the R9, and the power presented by the 9mm cartridge, that this firearm should not be considered a range gun, but rather, and as Karl Rohrbaugh says, it's a Shoot Little, Carry Lots type of firearm.

It was his recommendation that I load up the magazines with the Corbons, and every 3 months fire the rounds in those mags through the R9, then replacing them with new rounds. Three months later, repeat the cycle.

That will work for me, so I'm satisfied with the explanation I received.

[Tangmu]

That's really interesting, thanks for taking the time to write it all down and share it.

Does anyone know if the Corbons are still available only through Rohrbaugh?

[arjuna70]

Here's a link to their website:

http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/store/store_set.html

Not cheap.  I use the Gold Dots myself and have put about 200rds+ without a problem.  I shoot WWB from Walmart for practice loads.

I had a similar problem with my previous R9 and I called Rohrbaugh and Karl also called me back.  He diagnosed my problem as a trigger issue.  Basically, he told me that the R9 is not a target pistol and should not be shot as such.   He told me to pull the trigger firmly and with force.  He said not to pull it back slowly as you would a match trigger.   He said it was designed as a short range weapon to be used under duress and not shoot the 10 hole at 25 yrds.  So I changed the way I shoot the R9 and have not had a problem since.

[theirishguard]

thanks, for that info.   Tom

[steve1147]

Same story here, even shipped mine back once, wrongly expected a $1200 gun should shoot anything I shoved in it!!!!
Love my R9s, however it WILL NOT fire any Remington ammo reliably.
As long as I feed it nothing but Federal American Eagle for practice and Winchester Silvertips both in 115, it has performed flawlessly. I also only fire a couple clips every few months, then clean, fire one Silvertip to verify proper assembly, and carry. As Karl told me early on over the phone, it's like a dragster, it's meant to be pulled, fire seven shots quickly, then cool and be cleaned.
I leave it to the Rugers and Smith&Wesson revolvers for all day firing sessions with cheap ammo.

[rtmoore4]

Hmmm, the trigger is meant to be pulled back "firmly and with force"?  And that is supposed to make the hammer fall harder?  Now, I've already admitted I'm not a gunsmith, but I am an engineer, and I have serious doubts about that one.  

The only way this could possibly be the case is if the argument is that you add additional backwards momentum to the hammer by pressing it quickly, causing it to very slightly compress the mainspring just a touch more than if you had pressed it slowly.  However, the design of the trigger bar, combined with the length of travel, doesn't really let you build up much momentum on the hammer.  

Besides, if the issue was that the hammer needed just a tiny bit more compression to fire reliably, why not modify the trigger bar by adding a micron or so of length?  You would achieve the same goal (greater compression of the mainspring) and you would have a more reliable pistol under all trigger pulling scenarios.

Seriously, in an actual shooting situation, do you really want to be put in the situation of having to release any possible staging of the trigger you may have already put in, just to get a full "firm and forceful" pull for the full length of trigger travel?  Now, I get that the pistol is a Ferrari, but this is just too much.  I have to learn how to pull the trigger for it to go bang every time?  No sir.  If the trigger is pulled to the breaking point, whether over .001 seconds or 10 seconds, the gun should do it's job and fire.

I'm glad that your new pistol is reliable arjuna70, but I highly doubt it has anything to do with how you are pulling the trigger.

[Bill_in_TX]

I suspect that the idea behind pulling the trigger back "firmly and with force" has nothing to do with additional compression of the mainspring (hammer).  More likely, it allows the trigger bar to pull away cleanly from the hammer and not drag along it as the hammer descends on the FP.

I've not pulled apart my Rohrbaugh to see exactly how the trigger bar and hammer interact.  However, I have done so with a Sig P239 that I converted to DAO and the hammer can be slowed down in that if I just slowly pull the trigger bar out of its notch.  The trigger bar (as well as the sear in the Sig)  just drags along the hammer potentially slowing down its rotation.

OTOH Rohrbaugh may just be describing the type of trigger pull that DA revolver shooters have known to be the best for the last 50 years, or so.  "Staging" a DA trigger pull, even if it doesn't lead to FTF problems, is not a really good way to shoot DA.

[MurrayNevada]

That's really interesting, thanks for taking the time to write it all down and share it.

Does anyone know if the Corbons are still available only through Rohrbaugh?

I tried to order some of these Corbons from Rohrbaugh a few days ago but they are out of stock and probably won't have any until after the Shot Show.  I'm told Mr. Rohrbaugh carries Silvertips when not carrying these specially developed Corbons in his personally owned weapon.

[mjrodney]

The Rohrbaugh Corbons are shipping.

I just received my order this evening, 01/09/2009.

[MurrayNevada]

The Rohrbaugh Corbons are shipping.

I just received my order this evening, 01/09/2009.

When did you order?

[mjrodney]

Just a bit before Christmas.

I was told then that a shipment was due in after January 5th.