Second time with my new R9s - problems!

[Guinnessdog]

Mine had clearly been shot a lot. The frame rails were well worn as well as the area between the rails where the chamber comes in contact. I don't really care as long as it works!

I'd be happy if I could get 50 rounds thru it without a malfunction every time I went to the range. I understand the need for proper cleaning and lube and fresh springs. I'm not asking for perfection, just perfection under ideal conditions.

[Michigunner]

I really wish the tiny pistols could fire away just like the big guys, on and on, without any failures.

My goal is to do whatever it takes to establish that the first magazine will always fire perfectly with utter confidence.  

And it would be a bonus if the second could, too.

Bill

[Archiver]

Quite Frankly this thread has scared the bejesus out of my purchasing an R9! I understand that the guns in question are factory serviced older model...BUT if I were Rohrbaugh I'd take em back and replace them with new units that they tested to be flawless..if such a thing is indeed possible.
 
If I had extra $ or was using the R9 as backup only for a couple shots...maybe I'll buy. But honestly right now I'm gonna wait and buy a Keltec p-9 when they come out. I heard very bad things about Kel-tec reliability but have found that 2 guns I and wife own have been EXCELLENT. They eat even hardball at range quite well....and...NO I'm not a troll!  

I LOVE the whole idea of the R9....and its package, materials etc.  The ONLY improvement other than reliability that would probably be easily fixed that I'd recommend based on posts here is improved checkering. I have a similar grip on my daily carry Beretta 96 but also have a Beretta Billenium...and the VERY checkered grip on Billenium would probably help the R9.

[MountainMan]

Archiver

The R9 is not for everyone and I would say if you only read this thread you would have a few concerns.  Most people I know have hundreds of rounds through them without a problem.  I have two and couldn't be happier.

The Kel-tec I had was junk -couldn't shoot three shots in a row without a jam.  You are happy with yours so as with all guns it is the luck of the draw.

If the Kel-tec works for you and it makes you feel secure that is all that counts.

For myself if it was impossible to get another R9 and I only had one and I was offered several times what I paid for it I wouldn't sell.

Take care.

[Datan]

I don't know what the right answer is here but I'll add in my experience.  I used to have FTFs until I did two things:  

1)  I find that for my R9, the recoil spring stiffness impacts reliability.  For my R9, the recoil spring is initially too stiff.  Without fail, my gun has FTFs after inserting a new recoil spring for the first 25-40 rounds - after that it works perfectly until the 250 round mark where I change the recoil spring and put another 25-40 rounds through the R9 to "condition" the recoil spring.  Recoil springs are cheap and I've tested this enough times to feel comfortable that the gun will perform reliably if I do this (and one other thing).

2)  On advice from Karl, I tried shooting the R9 one-handed.  Since I have done that, I have never had a FTF (also doing the spring "condition").  Even with my "conditioning" of the recoil spring, I will once-in-a-while get a FTF if I shoot two-handed.  So now I shoot/train one handed.  

By doing both of these things, I no longer have any issues and feel good about carrying the R9 daily (been doing so for 2 years now).  I'm not sure if there is one exact thing that will work for all of the issues people see from time to time but I've come to find that this gun is rather particular about how it is shot and its recoil spring.  I hope you figure your R9's peculiarities out and that it will prove reliable after you learn how to deal with them.  Should you have to deal with something like this?  To me it is just part of this gun - it's now routine.  I do wish that I knew what the issue was up front rather than the trial and error that I went through.  Fortunately there is a great community of people here that are happy to speculate and test things out.

I wish you success!

[BillinPittsburgh]

Why does 1-handed work but not 2-handed?

[harrydog]

Why does 1-handed work but not 2-handed?

Karl suggested I try shooting one handed also, but in the long run it didn't solve the problem. It still baffles me as to why there are some people who just can't seem to get the R9 to function reliably, while there are others who can't get theirs to malfunction even when they intentionally limp-wrist.

[capt.koolaid]

I was Going to start a new topic titled "my pup is learning", but with the responses Ive seen here, Maybe this is where it should go. O.K., Here gos: Shot 60 rounds thru it today with only 2 jams, and one of which I think was a limp-wrist due to me flinching by being struck in the head from an ejected hot case. Ammo was winchester whitebox 115 grain (50 rounds) and winchester SXT 147 grains. This performance while substandard by many standards is a VAST improvement over my shoot two, get a jam every magazine reps Ive expierianced. I honestly feel the more this gun is shot the better the performance but, now im up to 200 rounds so rather than risk wearing out a spring, Im concluding my testing at this point, and have decided to keep the R-9, and carry it although whenever possible it will be a SECOND gun, backin up my .38 snubbie ( never jammed yet!).

Heres what happend: First magazine was Whinchester 147 grain SXT. Gun jammed second round. ( round pointed skyward with bullet caught on feed ramp at an angle, very difficult to clear in a timely fashion). I emptyed the magazine out in my hands and reloaded from the whitebox ball lot. No problems one or two handed till abbout half way thru when I was doin double taps and a hot case hit me in the forehead. Im fairly certain I limpwristed after that and had a jam, ( didnt go into battery all the way, tap rack banged it and went on without a hitch.) When I had exhausted my ball ammo I stoked up with the remaining SXTs and fired em off with no problems. I have noticed firing one handed seems to be more reliable as well but ive no reason why. I was obviously happy with the improved reliability ( shooting both hands and one hand, slow and fast) but like many things I wondered why and was frustrated I had no answers. Gone are the failures to cycle ( fired round ejects but does not chamber a round from the magazine so you dont have a jam but fire on an empty chamber) and the accidental magazine jettisons, ( very peculiar considering the magazine release on the R-9 ( Im possitive it was fully seated the couple occasions this happend).

At anyrate I went to a gunsmith friend of mine and asked his thoughts as well as requesting he give it the once over. Ill post this in a seperate entry so this doesnt send me an error message to long report.

[capt.koolaid]

Okay, Heres what the Village Smithy said:

The Gun had VERY little rounds put thru it by its previous owner. He surmised after an unreliable trial the owner gave up and Rohrbaugh bought the gun back, "reconditioned it", and resold it with a warranty and new springs.

I come along and buy it, the gun is not "broke in" and the springs are too stiff. After some shooting the recoil spring softens a bit and reliability is improved, ( This is why it no longer cycles without stripping a round from the magazine,).

I still have failures and in desperation try differant lube habits, shooting some rounds without ANY lubrication. This in turn excellerates the wear, ( now visible) which has "worn" the parts to the extent less friction is thier to retard movement.

I then begin using a quality OIL, not GREASE with a softened recoil spring, and magazine springs now with a "set" from being left loaded up, and a death grip on it to dispel the "your limpwristin it! cheerleaders" and reliability is improved DRAMATICALY, with a variety of rounds.

HE also said he felt reliability would continue to improve with shooting as this gun is built with such tight tollerances to counter-act the pitfalls of pocket carry, I.E. lint, etc. But did concur that you'd have to wear a few recoil springs out, then break in new ones again to get it up to par.

A word to the wise: check your grip screws after each shooting session as well, they seem to loosen up quickly.

[Michigunner]

I remember reading somewhere that the operation could be adversely affected by loose grip screws.  Maybe someone will remember the post.

I continue to carry with oil rather than grease, but will always apply grease before going to the range to shoot my scheduled two magazines.  

I'm glad you have taken the time and effort to tell details about your experiences.  It helps everybody manage a pistol with tight tolerances.  I  wonder if we should receive springs that have been pre-conditioned during manufacture.

Thanks again, capt.koolaid.

[Guinnessdog]

I view these issues like a puzzle I'm trying to solve. We all know that with a gun this small for the caliber, we're getting to the edge of the performance envelope. Kind of like an exotic car, they can be perfectly reliable when properly maintained.

While on the one hand I think that any auto pistol should be able to digest ball ammo without a hiccup, ball ammo is certainly not the first choice for this gun's intended role, which is as a weapon. So I think to myself, if it chokes occasionally on FMJ, and often on Gold Dots, I should send it back and have the factory deal with it.

But something in my nature prevents me from doing that. I want to solve the problem myself. So I will continue to try different ammo until I find something that works. If that fails, I'll send it back.

I believe that the R9 is generally reliable. Posts about guns that work 100% are boring, so they don't get up a head of steam and people may get the wrong impression about a gun based on a relatively few instances. I personally believe you can't really form a valid opinion about a particular gun's reliability until you've had hundreds of round thru it, and the first 100 to 200 rounds don't count!

I'll try and get to the range soon, and will keep everyone updated.

[R9SCarry]

Just a comment re grip screws - yes they need checked and should have a dab of medium Locktite added.

Only the right side panel is critical - it will not as I can see affect overall timing and feed aspects - it does tho cover and provide support for the trigger transfer bar and keep all that and return spring in place.

A final reminder - only use a top quality Allen wrench for those screws - 0.0625", 1/16" - not a sloppy cheap deal a thou or two undersize as that will rapidly ruin the screw head hex.

[Aglifter]

Did anyone who has to shoot the pup one handed check and see if their thumbs are dragging the slide -- I'm really confuse, since mine never goes wrong -- I grease the heck out of it -- maybe using the oil isn't providing enough lubrication?

[harrydog]

My thumb does not touch the slide when shooting one handed, so that's not the problem, at least not in my case.

[Guinnessdog]

Here's the latest:

I put 56 Fed. 124gr HydraShoks thru the pup last night. There were 2 FTF, one of which had the round pointing straight up and was very difficult to clear.

Then I noticed a shiny metal rod on the ground behind me. I thought for a moment it was a hinge pin from a door at the range, then I realized it was my recoil spring guide rod! It had snapped off at its attachment point and flown out of the gun. How it ended up behind me is a mystery.

I don't know how many rounds I fired with the gun missing its guide rod, but racking the slide seemed to function properly. I briefly considered firing my last few rounds, but wisdom prevailed and I packed it up.

It's going back to the factory today.