For those who have had problems...

[LeonB570]

Hi Everybody,

I started a thread under Rohrbaugh Wish List, entitled R9 "Break-In" Certification.  In light of the continuing problem, it seems more appropriate to continue the discussion here under this thread.

I purchased an R9s just before Christmas, and went out to the range with great excitment, only to discover 2 failures-to-extract in the first 15 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 115 gr.!  That was a real "party pooper".

I came back to the Rohrbaugh Forum and read everything I could about the possible causes.  The Forum members were very helpful with their sugestions.  The problem continuued for the next 3 trips to the range.  I tried holding the gun as hard as I could, as Karl Rohrbaugh advised in a telephone conversation to me.  I put on grip tape, as several threads in the Forum discuss.  I bought a Hogue rubber sleeve, and tried that.  Interestingly enough, I acquired a Kel-Tec generation 2 P3-AT (.380) and it has had no problems at all in about 50 rounds.  It is surprisingly accurate too.  Of course,at it's price it doesn't have the finish and tooling that the R9s has, but it goes bang all the time for me.

Karl suggested that I return it to the factory for a workover, so I sent it UPS overnight on a Thursday evening, and the factory got it back to me the next Tuesday morning.  Talk about fast service!  If I read the invoice right, they put in a new barrel.

As soon as the weather permitted, I went back to the range.  With high hopes, I put 3 groups of 5 rounds through the R9s.  The first 13 cycled perfectly with reasonable accuracy.  I thought "Oh Boy!, It's fixed!!".  You guessed it.  The last 2 rounds failed to extract.

Now what do I do?  I can assume that it needs more "break-in" to get reliable and shoot another 50 rounds or so. I can send it back to the factory, or maybe I should assume that at age 78 my grip just isn't up to an R9s.  RJ Hedley suggested that maybe I was a "revolver" person and he may be right.  However, the Kel-Tec P3-AT shoots for me just beautifully.

I guess I could try shooting the R9s off sandbags, or get another experienced shooter to try it out.  Maybe, I should just give up and sell it off.  I did buy an airlight S&W J-Frame 360 PD (357/38) and it shoots beautifully with the Gold Dot 38 Spec. +P 135 gr. "short barrel" ammo.  It just weighs 12 oz. and is a sweet little gun.  

But damn, I would sure like to get the Rohrbaugh to work reliably for me.  It's just a pleasure to handle.  What do you all think?  What action should I take?

Best Wishes,
LeonB570

[bigyimmy]

Leon,
Have someone shoot the gun that your positive they can grip it well and knows how to.  Have someone watch you shoot the gun.  Remember no fingers or thumbs near the slide.  Make sure the gun is cleaned and lubed.  Best of luck to you.
Respectfully,
Jim

[R9SCarry]

Leon - very sorry to hear of continued problems.

I would indeed as Jim suggests - get someone else to try - and in process of course achieve a bit more break-in.

So hard to know what is going on - and if you manage airweights and KelTec's then can't believe you have too much grip problem.

I guess - persevere a bit more before giving up - but it does seem that just now again, this gun just does not suit some folks - and danged if I always can see why!

[bigyimmy]

When I shoot the R9 I push the gun forward like I am shoving it into someones chest as I squeeze the trigger.


"Hold it like you mean it."

[Michigunner]

bigyimmy,

I've also read elsewhere about folks using that technique to help keep the recoil more manageable.

It sounds like a good idea.

Bill

[tracker]

Bill,
 
Pushing, pulling, yanking, or banking seems like a bad
idea to me when firing a weapon. Why not keep it
simple and not move anything that doesn't move?
Consistency is the key and any induced movement
will produce erratic results. IMHO.  

[R9SCarry]

I also do not feel that any ''thrust'' when shooting is going to be any useful aid, other than to loss of accuracy, control and consistency!!

Somehow grip has to be gotten right, for the individual.  Providing the grip and arm are not allowed to ''soak up'' energy that should otherwise be going back into the gun - it should function fine.

I sometimes suggest a ''white knuckle'' grip - and then back off a tad.  No induced tremor is wanted but sure as heck - solid control is.  Essential.

[Michigunner]

Some years ago after reading about pushing the pistol forward, I tried it but was unsuccessful.  It just wasn't for me.

I believed the writer was attempting to better manage the recoil.

Now that I have a big, full-sized HK .45, I just close my eyes and hope for the best.       Just kidding, of course.  There is little room for humor during the safe operation of firearms.  Being safe is a full-time job.

It is a privilege which I cheerish.

Bill

[theirishguard]

If the shooter pushs with the strong hand on the gun and pulls with the weak hand the recoil should be less.
Tom

[Michigunner]

Tom,

Now that you mention it, I do remember reading the same thing.  Apparently, some folks do try it.

Bill

[bigyimmy]

Ok!  Before I take any more beatings (LOL) over the “like you pushing it into someone’s chest” analogy let me explain in more detail.  What I want you to do is stand up.  Now grasp your imaginary R9 pistol.  Now pretend someone is standing right in front of you and you are taking your R9’s muzzle and pushing into their chest.  The same as you would push your finger in their chest.  This is the best I can explain it.  The gun is not flying around gangsta’ style or nothing else out of the ordinary.  All you are doing is holding it like you mean it and sticking it (the muzzle) forward like you would stick your finger in someone’s chest.  It works for me.  I have had zero malfunctions and I shoot excellent groups.
Respectfully,
Gangsta’ Jim

~What up my man?  LOL

 


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http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=Water;action=display;num=1140091774

[LeonB570]

Hi Everybody,

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'll try the "chest-poking" suggestion by Bigyimmy, the next time out to the range when we have a no-wind, somewhat warmer day.  I have also ordered several different brands and weights of good quality ammo to try, just in case my R9s (with my hand hold)  prefers a particular type for some unkown reason.  I'll give it a couple more months of trial before I give up and sell it off.

Thanks again for your helpful ideas.

Best Wishes,
Leon
  

[R9SCarry]

Ahhh - ''Gangsta Jim'' - I am with you now - it is clearer!

I think this is therefore more of a total body fwd thrust - ''into the gun'' so to speak and that I can accept better.  I was I fear seeing Lone Ranger, just a bit

The grip as Tom mentions is what I call ''antagonistic'' gripping - I think I do it by default now I ponder it.  It is ''push-pull'' such that equal and opposite forces are achieved with each hand and arm.  Yes, that does provide greater stability IMO - it puts more strength into the grip even when shooter has an otherwise compromized hold due to injury or just not enough strength.

[harrydog]

I use the "push-pull" two handed grip for all of my hand guns and it had always worked well for me, with the exception of the R9. I've experimented with all manner of gripping styles with the R9 and have found that all of them work about the same. That is to say that all of them work well MOST of the time. But I've had malfunctions with all of them.
 
I ran another 25 rounds through the gun yesterday. Mostly Gold Dots and one mag full of Winchester white box. I used mostly a two handed grip this time (push-pull). I only had one malfunction. It was with the white box ammo and it was a combination FTE/FTF. By that I mean the spent casing got hung up before it completely cleared the slide and the next round was partially out of the magazine headed towards the chamber. This was at the end of my range session (last magazine). I had also shot 100 rounds of .45 and several boxes of 12ga 00 buckshot just prior to shooting the R9, so fatigue may have been the culprit.
 
I've been to the range with my R9 on six occasions and shot a total of about 200 rounds. I've had at least one malfunction each time with the exception of once when I shot 25 rounds of Gold Dots with no problems. In the beginning I was having multiple malfunctions each time but recently they're occurring much less often - maybe only one per session.
 
My thoughts are that the malfunctions in the beginning were mostly attributable to break-in or perhaps the gun needing some tweaking. Now I think the malfunctions (for me at least) are likely attributable to being a bit lax in how I grip the gun. If I am not concentrating on holding the gun in an absolute death grip, malfunctions will SOMETIMES occur. This is with either two-handed or one-handed grips - doesn't seem to matter. It's just enough of a problem to prevent me from being absolutely confident in the gun for carry purposes. I'm not giving up on it yet though. I'll continue to practice with it. I'm just not going to shoot more than 20 - 25 rounds through it each time so that I avoid putting too many rounds through the gun.

I would recommend that everyone practice shooting this gun with both one-handed and two-handed grips. Since, as Karl says, this is a "gut gun" which is meant to be used at very close quarters. You may not have a chance to get a perfect two-handed grip on the gun after drawing it. As they say, a real-life situation is not likely to happen the way you expect it

[R9SCarry]

Harry - may be a minor point but - re grip strength -

I am despite being close on 61 - fortunate to have one heck of a grip - I have hurt a few hands with a handshake, liking as I do a firm handshake.  Hand size too i think has quite a bit to do with it tho - my quite large hams could almost be said to be a disadvantage, on something as small as the pup!

I would suggest tho that for some folks the ubiquitous tennis ball excercizer could help.  Just have said object to hand when watching some TV etc - and do many repetitions of squeeze.  I does over time add something to the grip IMO - tho if some arthritic factors, then do not overdo too much in one session.

I am very confident with my carry pup but I do practice failure drills - just as I might on my 1º SIG or any other carry piece.  Even the simple action of fast and energetic slide racking to clear one round and feed another - and letting slide ''slingshot'' firmly too.