Author Topic: On Seecamp Forum Larry Comments on FTF Causes  (Read 5521 times)

Offline MountainMan

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On Seecamp Forum Larry Comments on FTF Causes
« on: February 12, 2006, 09:50:57 PM »
On the Seecamp forum a member asked for reasons why his 1911 was having so many FTF problems.  From that thread I have only copied here the responses from Larry Seecamp on possible FTF causes.

Since some have FTF problems with their R9s, or other guns, I thought many would find the comments from a gun expert as Larry interesting.  He is not referring to, or talking about the R9.
Remember his posts are on the Seecamp form not the Rohrbaugh here - but just pasted.
Dave




 
  

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Re: Why the heck is my 1911 jamming?
« Reply #8 on: Feb 10th, 2006, 8:00am »       Quote  Modify

________________________________________
The bullet nose will strike the ramp different depending on whether it's the first or last round out of the magazine. The early rounds tend to strike lower than the later rounds.
 
What would seem to be happening here is that the early rounds are striking low and the bullet nose then gets lifted up and rides past a dead spot on your feed ramp. The last round seems to be hitting the dead spot center on. By dead spot I mean a spot where the angle at which the cartridge strikes the ramp is not conducive to a reliable feed. The angle at which the cartridge strikes the ramp is affected by not only the magazine lips and whether it's an early or later round but also by the speed with which the breech face moves against the back of the cartridge.
 
Why is this happening now when it didn't happen before? A slight spring change could have affected the timing. My guess is that if you throw out the recoil buffer you'll likely get rid of the last round jamming problem.  
 
Of course you may just then have created a jamming problem elsewhere in the magazine.  
 
Change the timing and you will likely change the feed.
 
I trust this is not an alloy frame pistol and that the ramp is smooth?



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Re: Why the heck is my 1911 jamming?
« Reply #10 on: Feb 10th, 2006, 8:18am »       Quote  Modify

________________________________________
On further reflection, there is also a strong possiblity that because of the recoil buffer the last round is striking lower than the earlier rounds. As the magazine empties there is less resistance to forward movement.
 
The faster the slide moves forward the greater is the tendency for the round to nosedive down into the ramp.
 
Anyway, it's timing that is in all probability creating the jams.



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Re: Why the heck is my 1911 jamming?
« Reply #15 on: Today at 4:04pm »       Quote  Modify

________________________________________
Almost all jams trace back to timing. There are thus often several different ways to correct a jamming problem, with folks who've only tried one of them and succeeded believing their way provided the only correct answer.
 
Polishing feed ramps, breech faces, etc., affects timing. Further polishing a feed ramp that is already reasonably smooth is usually non-productive because it minimally affects timing. The traditional break in period of automatics is nothing more than a shooting of the gun until it gets the right timing.
 
The recoil spring of the Les Baer is obviously strong enough to drive the slide since the rounds that are hardest to strip are making it all the way home.
 
A new recoil spring, a fresh magazine spring, throwing out the buffer, changing the extractor, etc., all can affect timing as can going with a different brand of ammo that is dimensionally identical to another brand but chronographs differently.
 
I've seen a 1911 that preferred one brand of semi-wadcutter over another although the cartridges were virtually identical in dimension.
 
Dry cycling cartridges or even empties is of limited value in predicting what happens at the range because dry cycling says nothing about timing.
 
Shooter hold affects timing. The lighter the frame the greater is the affect of shooter hold on timing.  
 
It's entirely possible, with the Les Baer, that another shooter would not have the problem. This is not to suggest limp wristing because I don't mean to suggest limp wristing might be the problem. I'm sure it isn't. Equally proficient and experienced shooters hold guns differently. Some of us climb up higher on the grip than others. Some of us have softer hands or beefier hands.  
 
It's not unrealistic to have a pistol which prefers one brand of ammo with one shooter and another brand with another shooter. A person could, in good faith, swear that they'd never had a jam shooting brand X while another shooter can't get a full magazine of brand X through the same gun and finds it flawless with brand Y.
 
It's all in the timing, and it's very difficult to get that down so it covers shooters and ammo across the board.
      




« Last Edit: February 12, 2006, 09:54:34 PM by MountainMan »
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Offline bluegun

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Interesting
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2006, 11:53:31 PM »
thanks MM

Offline Brenden

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Re: On Seecamp Forum Larry Comments on FTF Causes
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2006, 06:11:56 PM »
Dave,

Thanks for putting that here..

It may just let someone in on a potential problem solving solution.. :)

Sometimes we as humans, want to blame the machine-when sometimes it may just be the person "behind" the machine creating the "problem".. ;)

Thanks again,

Brenden

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Offline Michigunner

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Re: On Seecamp Forum Larry Comments on FTF Causes
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2006, 06:22:48 PM »
Excellent reading.  Thanks, Dave.

I'm sometimes tempted to get a revolver.   ;)

Bill

Offline rtohio

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Re: On Seecamp Forum Larry Comments on FTF Causes
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2006, 10:06:25 PM »
An excellent article by a person who obviously knows of what he speaks. I learned some things I did not know and they apply to any gun feeding from a magazine. Thanks for the posting.

RTOhio

Offline DTM_39

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Re: On Seecamp Forum Larry Comments on FTF Causes
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2006, 12:28:18 PM »
Thanks Dave,  Very interesting reading. I didn't know the shooter could have that much effect on the gun functioning reliably. Dan
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