Author Topic: Gloom, despair, agony on me..  (Read 55826 times)

Offline Skyhook

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Re: Gloom, despair, agony on me..
« Reply #75 on: November 08, 2005, 07:13:19 AM »
"Lots and lots  of honest reviews.."

And where would these have come from? The only place for reviews I trust are from those indiviuals who actually own and use whatever it is I am thinking of buying. That's what this forum allowed and I am grateful.

I really do not put a lot of trust in magazine reviews, for instance.

As for alarming anyone with the truth, ie: teething problems of a new product, no adult should become all that disturbed learning some machine actually had some flaws.

As for the $1K, humph. That's only a figure I used for comparison. I do not fear losing $1000 for that much and more is stolen from each and every one of us each year.

Naw, I just want the factory to work this ything out and I also know that whether or not that happens is totally the responsibility of that company. We're doing the responsible consumer thing, aren't we?

Offline TW

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Gloom, despair, agony on me..
« Reply #76 on: November 08, 2005, 08:46:55 AM »

>>Skyhook...

You make some good points, I just don't like to see the board go into what might look like an unwarranted feeding frenzy.  Already there is one guy saying he will not make an R9 purchase based on what he is now reading...which reminds me of the same kind of knee jerk reaction you might see based on newspaper reports now-a-days.  However, I agree 100% about getting real facts about the R9 HERE vs. the news rags.  I have yet to meet anyone able to get ~ 3" groups with an R9 at 25 yards as claimed early on - LOL.  

My other point has to do with allowing Rohrbaugh a reasonable amount of time to look at/work on a gun before an owner should expect return of a gun and/or communications about it - this based on some of the early response some of us had back when Eric would comb this forum daily and respond to everyone's queries personably ASAP.  By and large those days are gone, and some of us old timers (of less than a year ago) still promote such activity as if still current.

So...  Let's hope our guns receive the treatment they need and deserve in a timely way so we can report back here with confidence what has been going on with them, and relate the continued good service that we rightfully expect - within reason...TW<<
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 08:51:58 AM by TW »

Offline Michigunner

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Re: Gloom, despair, agony on me..
« Reply #77 on: November 08, 2005, 09:00:37 AM »
I think it is urgent that we discuss R9 problems here on the forum.  Otherwise, we would think there were no defects.  Our main business has been to praise the pistol, but we must also  provide critical reviews.

I understand RJ's point.  If he ever had a holster fail, he wants the customer to tell him, and he would fix it.  He would fix it faster than we could talk about it.  It's not worth making a federal case out of nothing.

But now there are reports of steel frames cracking, and pistols that do not function.  This is potentially a life or death situation.

If Charles Lindbergh takes us for an airplane ride, and a big crack appears across the wing, and the fuel is not flowing normally, we need to discuss this on the Ryan aircraft forum.  I think the reasons are self-evident.


Offline RJ HEDLEY

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Re: Gloom, despair, agony on me..
« Reply #78 on: November 08, 2005, 10:36:26 AM »
With all respect, to all,  the point has been made,      I"M sure.

 The problem has been documented by many,  I might be leading the group if mine was affected ! But mine is not seeing too much action,

  This thread should shown a liile restraint from this point,   give the Brothers  a little time....
RJ=


 
 

Offline DDGator

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Re: Gloom, despair, agony on me..
« Reply #79 on: November 08, 2005, 11:16:45 AM »
I have stayed out of this for a while, to let other speak.  I feel like I should address a few points.

This forum was founded by me and only me.  (I have since had a lot of help from you guys -- no doubt about that -- and all appreciated).  I didn't even have an R-9 yet, but I ordered one.  I then contacted Eric and told him I would like to start a Rohrbaugh Forum.  They thought it was a great idea, but made it clear that it could not (for legal reasons) have any connection to the company.  I don't have permission to use their logo, and they have no control over the content.  Rohrbaugh has never given me a dime toward this effort for the same reasons.  This is an open internet forum -- an unofficial forum -- with no connection to Rohrbaugh Firearms.

There is no mandate on my part to censor "bad" information.  Even when there are questionable posts, I tend to close them rather than delete them so there is no cry of censorship.  I have deleted a post or maybe two in the history of this forum -- and that had to do with personal attacks rather than R-9 info.  I believe that the credibility of this forum requires the open sharing of information.

That being said, I do try to maintain some fairness and objectivity.  I won't let people trash Rohrbaugh unfairly -- nor will I let people trash other people unfairly.

I think this forum has done a slight disservice to the R-Brothers by making them seem too accessible and raising expectations too much.  Internet forums draw the extremes -- people complaining about a broken gun and people whose socks have been blown off by good service.  The two opposing camps are thrown together and the guys on the short end of the stick feel even worse!

If I send a gun to S&W or Glock or Springfield I would expect a 6-8 week turn around time.  Sorry -- but it's true.  When sending a gun to a small shop you might even expect more.  To expect an assessment of a gun in a week or less seems unrealistic to me for any company.

The problems on the 'net are magnified to the nth degree.  All Glocks kaboom in .40 cal or have Phase III malfunctions in G19s, all S&W revolvers have inadvertent lock engagements, all Kahrs have magazine catch failures, all Kimbers have MIM parts failures, etc.  People don't get on a website to report their gun just fired another 100 trouble free rounds.  Most of those people don't even find the forums in the first place.

Face it folks -- we are early adopters.  Rohrbaugh may have shipped 1,000 guns.  How many Glock 19s have been made, and they still had a frame recall?  The most important thing is that the factory is committed to fixing any issues and making them right.  I have yet to hear anything otherwise.

I am not censoring anyone, I am just asking everyone to be reasonable and give this a chance to work itself out.  Last year people were panicked about a pin failure that ultimatley affected a couple of guns and was fixed.  These things happen.  It will all work out.

Anyone who reads this forum and decides not to buy an R-9 probably shouldn't buy one.  I am not sure that you would buy any pocket gun if you read all the forums.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 12:43:43 PM by admin »
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Offline RJ HEDLEY

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Re: Gloom, despair, agony on me..
« Reply #80 on: November 08, 2005, 11:17:26 AM »
To reiterate, the point is made..   Just how many cracked slides are there out there??  I come up with four,  do you see more?  

I just called to inquire of this problem,  it has been identified and corrected.  There were a few slides that got out.  It seems most have been caught.  But I'm sure there may be others,  maybe mine.    But, the point is, they will be taken care of...  

Just calm down, or make a call, it's toll free.... :)
RJ=


 
 

Offline TW

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Gloom, despair, agony on me..
« Reply #81 on: November 08, 2005, 12:37:56 PM »
>>Duane...

Well stated...!  Now why couldn't I come out and say things so clearly...?...!

Now you have me concerned about my brand new G-19.  What's this about phase III maufunctions...?...lol...TW<<

Offline Michigunner

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Re: Gloom, despair, agony on me..
« Reply #82 on: November 08, 2005, 12:50:07 PM »
Perfectly said, Duane.  

Offline sslater

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Re: Gloom, despair, agony on me..
« Reply #83 on: November 08, 2005, 02:26:33 PM »
Duane,
I also agree with your 10:16am post.  As a retired engine design engineer for one of the Big Three, I can assure everyone that Murphy's Law holds true for anything that has parts.  That's EVERYTHING!!
40 years ago in engine production, a failure rate below 3 repairs per 100 per year in service was acceptable.  Today, 3 repairs per 1,000 lifetime is more the norm.
Still, there is a statisical failure rate for each part in each assembly in each subsystem that goes into a car.  Something like 15,000 parts in a mid-range car.  (An engine counts as one part. That engine may have 1,300 parts.  And so on.)  Even a very good car will have more than 1,000 repairs per 1,000 cars produced over three years in service.)  But chances are your individual car will need only a small handful of repairs.
Bottom line:  4 cracked slides out of 1,000 guns in service isn't a surprise.
BTW: I remember reading about Beretta M9's in military service having a rash of crack slides.  And some of those puppies flew off backwards into the faces of the shooters.   :P

Offline theirishguard

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Re: Gloom, despair, agony on me..
« Reply #84 on: November 08, 2005, 02:43:36 PM »
Daune and RJ, thanks for your coments. Lets all let the dust settle, they will take carer of the problems.

Tom
Tom Watson, DVC , Quis Separabit ,  Who dares wins, Utrinque Paratus

Offline Michigunner

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Re: Gloom, despair, agony on me..
« Reply #85 on: November 08, 2005, 09:23:39 PM »
It's easy to forget that other handguns have suffered from problems.

My new Beretta 92FS Inox failed to feed constantly during the first shooting.  The best it would do was two good ones in a row.

The extractor had a burr which was removed, but I was so disgusted I traded it back to the dealer at a loss, and got a Sig.

I'm glad that Duane stepped in.  I'm able to put my concerns aside while problems are worked out.

Offline Richard S

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Re: Gloom, despair, agony on me..
« Reply #86 on: November 08, 2005, 09:41:28 PM »
Let me add my little bit.

Duane is right on the mark.  There is no real problem here.  We few owners of the R9 series, of which there are not many more than 1,000 to date, are fortunate.  I have owned Rohrbaugh # 132 for more than a year.  I've lost track of the rounds fired through it.  I rang it out with 57 or so on the first outing.  Since then, I have limited my use to maintaining familiarization -- a magazine or two at a time. As Karl Rohrbaugh has advised, this is a weapon designed to be carried a lot and shot a little.  The same concept applies to the new Seecamp .380, which also pushes the size-envelope for its caliber.

If I want to run 200 rounds or more through a handgun at a single range session, I will use my customized Colt 1911 .45.  [Does anyone here what to see yet another picture of my pride and joy?  . . . I didn't think so.]  

The only complaint I have with my R9s is that I have not been able to get a set of sterling silver grips for the little masterpiece.  In the meantime, it is my "Ace in the Hole."

    
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 10:21:00 PM by Richard_S »
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Offline MountainMan

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Re: Gloom, despair, agony on me..
« Reply #87 on: November 08, 2005, 10:05:21 PM »
The forum has not been a fun place to visit lately.  I agree - lets sit back and breath for awhile and let the process work itself out.  It took me months to get results for a malfunctioning colt.  Yes discuss the good, and concerns, but without the panic.  I have always enjoyed coming here  because this forum is more than the gun itself.
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but the moments that take our breath away..."


Offline EdMan

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Re: Gloom, despair, agony on me..
« Reply #88 on: November 08, 2005, 11:42:34 PM »
I'm one of the members that had a cracked R-9 slide, but I've maintained a positive attitude. Karl R replaced my R-9 slide with a R-9S slide and had it back to me in less than a week. So it was actually a positive experience. For me this was I very good example of a cloud with a silver lining.  :)

Ed

Offline EdMan

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Re: Gloom, despair, agony on me..
« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2005, 12:17:35 AM »
Duane,
You're right about other gun companies taking a lot longer to repair guns than Rohrbaugh. I've had to send my Taurus PT145 back to Taurus 3 times to repair a broken frame. Each time they said they knew what caused it and that it was finally fixed, it wasn't. Also each time it took three weeks or more to gets the gun back. I've sent a couple Kel Tecs back for repair, again about 2 to 6 weeks to get it back.

I do disagree with what you said about Glocks though. You wrote (typed), "All Glocks kaboom in .40 cal or have Phase III malfunctions in G19s."  I have had my Glock 19 since 1986 and have thousands of rounds fired through it with no problems or failures of any kind. My Glock 22, 23, and 27 (all .40S&W) have had thousands of factory jacketed rounds fired through them with no kabooms or any other failures. Every confirmed incident of a kaboom, that I've been able to find information on, involved reloads and/or unjacketed lead bullets. Glock strongly recomends against using lead bullets in their barrels.

Thanks again for doing such a great job with this forum.  :)

Ed