Author Topic: Cracked R-9S Slide  (Read 54111 times)

Offline Aglifter

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 599
  • Thanks and Gig 'em
Re: Cracked R-9S Slide
« Reply #75 on: October 31, 2005, 01:49:37 AM »
Seems like they could just fill in the finger grooves in the area above the groove -- should help strengthen the metal.  Does an X-ray test help find metal cracks?  I remember it being something that used to be done on gun barrels to make sure there weren't bubbles in the metal of the barrels.  
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Offline sslater

  • Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
Re: Cracked R-9S Slide
« Reply #76 on: October 31, 2005, 09:34:05 AM »
Edman's photos seem to show the crack started in the grasping groove.
But judging from Erich's photo, the crack started at the back of the slide in the "land" area, not at the base of the grasping groove.
I'm sure the Rohrbaugh Company will perform a thorough metallurgy analysis and review their stress calculations.  Hopefully, the basic design will prove sound.
A couple of failures in 1,000 production guns isn't necessarily the end of the world, but an upward trend as guns in service pass the 500 round mark would be bad news indeed.

It seems almost half the total R9 owners are forum members, so we're seeing most of problems....
 

Offline Erich

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
Re: Cracked R-9S Slide
« Reply #77 on: October 31, 2005, 09:38:43 AM »
The crack does in fact start at the back of the slide on the "land" area of the grasping serration.

I really can't imagine this would affect function, though. At least not for a long time. I'm just disturbed that I have to look at it.

I emailed Rohrbaugh 4 photos of the crack last night, and will call Maria in a half hour or so when they open up. I'm sure they'll take care of it.

As was previously reported, Rohrbaugh said they got a bad batch of steel. This pistol was less than 10 away from another with a cracked slide, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was made from the same batch of bad steel.

Offline Michigunner

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1534
Re: Cracked R-9S Slide
« Reply #78 on: October 31, 2005, 12:18:52 PM »
Ubik380, that was a fine post about ear ringing.   I had wondered if some other person could hear the ringing.

Thank you for the interesting information.

It's a most important subject, and I hope new shooters will take great care to protect their precious hearing and vision.

Bill

Offline tracker

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 5398
Re: Cracked R-9S Slide
« Reply #79 on: October 31, 2005, 12:56:32 PM »
Does anyone know if Rohrbaugh uses MIM in making the R-9?

Offline Erich

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
Re: Cracked R-9S Slide
« Reply #80 on: October 31, 2005, 01:20:42 PM »
I'm fairly certain the answer is a firm NO.  :)

I've read so many articles about the firm and the gun - I believe they proudly make everything out of bar stock.

Offline RJ HEDLEY

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1026
  •         
Re: Cracked R-9S Slide
« Reply #81 on: October 31, 2005, 01:40:22 PM »
 That is correct.
RJ=


 
 

Offline DDGator

  • Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2662
    • The Rohrbaugh Forum
Re: Cracked R-9S Slide
« Reply #82 on: October 31, 2005, 04:36:31 PM »
AAACCCKKKK!  No MIM!  No forged or cast parts either!  And no plastic!   ;D
Duane (DDGator)
Rohrbaugh Forum Administrator
E-mail: Admin-at-RohrbaughForum.com

Offline bigyimmy

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
Re: Cracked R-9S Slide
« Reply #83 on: October 31, 2005, 04:47:44 PM »
Quote
Seems like they could just fill in the finger grooves in the area above the groove -- should help strengthen the metal.  Does an X-ray test help find metal cracks?  I remember it being something that used to be done on gun barrels to make sure there weren't bubbles in the metal of the barrels.  


Aglifter,
I suspect that odds are these cracked slides are due to defects in the grain of the raw material before machining.  The slide is awful thin in parts, but with the type of forces being applied that most likely is not an issue.  As far as doing an x-ray inspection and it detecting cracks.  That is true an x-ray will detect cracks that are on the surface or sub surface including fissures.  A cheaper and more practical way to go is to have a local machine shop or aircraft repair facility do a dye penetrate inspection.  All this does is place a small about a dye that will creep into a surface crack and make it easier to see.  I have R533 and am somewhat concerned over this matter, but all I intend to do is use a 10X to stronger magnifying glass and keep an eye on it.  I may never have a problem since I am taking Mr. Rohrbaugh’s advice of “carry allot and shoot a little”.  I believe this gun was not designed to shoot thousands of rounds.  Happy shooting and be safe!
Respectfully,
Jim


-Hopefully if it is determined to be bad material they will recall that batch of pistols.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2005, 05:09:02 PM by bigyimmy »

Offline Erich

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
Re: Cracked R-9S Slide
« Reply #84 on: October 31, 2005, 05:31:25 PM »
Talk about a great response!

Maria gave me their UPS # and I'll be shipping my gun back on their dime. No BS, no questions asked. The whole gun has to go back because the slide has to be fitted to the gun.

She said that Karl said there's only been at most 3 other slide cracks - looks like we really do have most of the Rohrbaugh owners in the world on this forum! :) Maria said that Karl knew about the cause (must be that steel) and that he said that it wouldn't be an issue for any new guns and that it should only have been an issue for a very limited number of guns.

Offline sslater

  • Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
Re: Cracked R-9S Slide
« Reply #85 on: October 31, 2005, 06:52:03 PM »
Erich,
That's good news from Karl R. in a pile of bad news.
I think the next time mine is apart for cleaning I'm going to give the slide grooves a good look-over with an 8X lupe.  Then maybe I'll take some dental floss and Simichrome polish to those sharp corners.
At least I'll feel like I did something useful. ;)

Offline bigyimmy

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
Re: Cracked R-9S Slide
« Reply #86 on: October 31, 2005, 07:04:54 PM »
It looks to me as if the slide may have been shot peened (blasted) to relieve stress after the machining process was done.  Then lightly bead blasted for a soft matte finish.

Offline EdMan

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
Re: Cracked R-9S Slide
« Reply #87 on: October 31, 2005, 11:55:02 PM »
Erich,
Man I’m sorry to say “welcome to the Rohrbaugh cracked slide club.” I’m glad that Rohrbaugh is going to pay to ship your pistol back to them. The turn around time was great on mine, and I got an R9S sighted slide out of the deal (which I like better), so I didn’t ask for my $36 shipping cost back. I just finished test firing mine with the new slide. At 15’ point of impact is within ½” of point of aim. I’m pleased with this. I put about 25 rounds through it. The twelve 115 grain Speer GDHP rounds I shot all performed flawlessly. The last three of the 115 grain FMJ UMC/Remington rounds failed to fire on the first pull of the trigger, but ignited on the second trigger pull. All I can think is maybe UMC has harder primers. In fact the primers on the fired UMC cases had the primer indentions totally pushed back out so they were flush with the rest of the primer. Also the slide and barrel were quite warm at the end of the 25 round string (the last 6 rounds were shot double tap rapid fire), so maybe expansion due to heat had something to do with the failure to fire problem. Erich good luck on your repair, I’m sure the Rohrbaughs will nurse your pup back to good health.
I wish you the best, EdMan
« Last Edit: October 31, 2005, 11:57:52 PM by ed5380 »

Offline EdMan

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
Re: Cracked R-9S Slide
« Reply #88 on: November 01, 2005, 12:35:58 AM »
After reading many posts here on the Rohrbaugh forum, and after talking to Karl Rohrbaugh, I now understand what the Rohrbaughs mean when they say, “carry a lot and shoot a little.”  I was treating my Rohrbaugh like I was treating my Glocks and Kahr pistols. Most of you know what I’m talking about, “minimum of 200 rounds fired before it can be considered reliable.” Fire a few hundred practice rounds a month for the fun of it. I now realize that’s not the way to treat or think of a Rohrbaugh, they are not designed to fire thousands of rounds. My Glocks have thousands of rounds fired through them and my Kahr pistols almost as many. All  with no failures, but they are not as light, concealable or as “finely crafted as the Rohrbaugh pistols. I think a good analogy is; the Glocks are like tough Pickup trucks. Big and tough, they will get the job done and take many miles of rough handling. The Kahr PM9s are like Mini Vans. Again they will get the job done, not quite as big or tough as the Glocks (trucks), but still do a good job after lots of use. Then we have the finely crafted, small, light, nimble Rohrbaugh. It reminds me of a small exotic sports car. Fun to drive and fulfils its purpose in life, and not to be driven hard everyday. When you need it, it will do its job if you keep it well maintained and don’t wear it out with unnecessary use. So after getting my repaired pup back I will be shooting it a lot less for fun, and carrying it more for protection, when it is not practical to carry the “trucks or minivans.”
Something else I like is what Karl Rohrbaugh told me, “I have my name on the gun…I consider Rohrbaugh owners to be part of my family.” I believe him.

Good Luck to all of may fellow Rohrbaugh owning brothers and sisters.

EdMan
« Last Edit: November 01, 2005, 09:30:28 AM by ed5380 »

Offline Iorndealer

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Cracked R-9S Slide
« Reply #89 on: November 01, 2005, 10:27:25 AM »
It is with regret to learn of the slide cracking on Erich R9s.  Having dealt with Karl Rohrbaugh on an issue with my pistol I'm confident that Erich's gun will be made right.  I though have a hard time swallowing what you guys are saying about "gingerly" firing our R9.  Given the fact that +P ammo is prohibited, that replacing the serviceable parts (springs etc) on a regular basis as factory prescribed prevent maintenance there is no reason that the "superstructure" of the gun should fail within such a short round count.  I find this very distressfull. Mind you I'm not preposing that the gun be able to digest 10K's rounds but come on 550?  I really hope that Erich's gun displays "bad metal" and not a mistake in engineering.  I took a 10x glass and looked at the rear of the slide and realized that the metal area looks very thin.  Would it be possible to slightly thicken the slide just a bit so that that area would be "reinforced" sort to speak?
"Keep it Safe, Keep it Secret"