Gun Tests pans R9s

[RJ HEDLEY]

"I don't know what the measurements are but anyone who has compared both in their pocket has to agree that there is a HUGE difference.  I think the PM9 carries more like my Glock 27.  The Rohrbaugh carries more like my Keltec P3-AT."
MurrayNevada

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I know there is a big difference in the piece of leather I use for the respective pistols.  [Rohrbaugh vs Kahr PM9]

[R9SCarry]

Justin - let me add  my thx for posting the article.  

I took ''Gun tests for a year'' ... but frankly - was not impressed with their work ... across the board.  I let the sub' lapse.  The reports seem very detailed but somehow just do not seem to hold up to others when assessed ''across the board'' .. not entirely sure why.  Being charitable, maybe they try their best but it don't wash with this ol' phart!

The ''only one mag'' is somewhat irrelevant IMO - no reason why a gun and single mag could not have been all that was  supplied and so quite adequate .... I didn't think they had to purchase the gun.!

Keyholing .... I think the only time I saw something resembling that was with crap ammo - more than likely the A-Merc!!  Feed decent stuff .. Gold Dots etc - and all is more than well.

As for takedown criticisms well ... that to me is a minor point - and as we know - this only requires a measure of technique and is hardly prejudicial to the piece overall.

They did make a point about machining quality etc ... which I guess is something.

Unfortunately I am in no position to relate to PM9 .. have not got or even handled one.  I have tho no doubt that - as with any gun platform - there will be fans in both camps.  No prob's there.  Daresay too a PM9 would suit me just fine if I had it.

Maybe in part some of this is like comparing a compact Para Ordnance to a Springfield or Kimber etc ..... folks will always find plusses and minuses.  Far as I am concerned the R9 is way out there .. and even if a gun takes a little ''getting used to'' .. the bottom line is does it perform and does it carry well.  The R9 does IMO.

The quoted dry weight BTW for R9 (sans mag) is 12.8 ounces.

[RJ HEDLEY]

Very opinionated writer, I would say.
I know a couple dozen gun show owner/ employees that talk JUST like the owner of GUN TEST.

I remember one in particular, said he would never own one of those over-rated Seecamps, for years.  Then one day he traded in [STOLE] one.   He kept it, of course,  but from then on, it was the best thing since sliced bread..  

I also think somebody ripped *GUN TEST* for a magazine ...

[shooterjb]

Beside the obligatory American Rifleman that comes with my NRA membership, the only firearms magazine I have subscribed to in years is Gun Tests. They are generally pretty good but have missed the mark on some guns in the past.

I have been carrying a Kahr P40 covert on my belt and a Kahr PM9 in my pocket for the past 18 hours today. I generally carry both and really like them. Both have been very accurate and dependable for me. The P40 covert was great out of the box but the PM9 was to the factory first and then to Teddy Jacobson before it performed as advertised.

I still can't wait to get my Rohrbaugh. The opinion of the Gun Tests writers is obviously wrong when I compare it to the experiences of at least a half a dozen Rohrbaugh owners whom I know, like, respect and trust. That business about the one magazine supplied made me wonder what was going on too. Apparently they didn't do any research or they would have known that the Rohrbaugh comes with two magazines.

Frank

[harrydog]

I've noticed that Gun Test Magazine's conclusions have often times been questionable, at least in my opinion. They always seem to dwell on some issue(s) that makes one of the guns unacceptable to the author. That issue may be insignificant to many other people or may be an isolated issue with their particular test gun, yet they still make a buy/don't buy recommendation and lots of folks probably take what they say to heart. A thinking person will take what they say into consideration, but will take it for what it's worth - one mans opinion of one particular example of a gun. At least they do find faults, which is somewhat refreshing. Most all gun rags simply sing the praises of everything they test, which is pure BS. I think there have been enough independent reports so far to conclude that the Gun Test experience with the R9 is not the norm. And I know that not all PM9s perform as flawlessly as this particular one did.

[musician]

My R9s is 'way more accurate than it needs to be: once I establish holdover, I pretty routinely can hit steel silhouettes at 50 yards.  I've never noticed that a round keyholed (holes in paper and Silhouette strikes have all been round).  Keyholing, in passing, is not necessarily a bad thing anyway if the target is hit.  My brother was a Navy doctor in 'Nam, and told me some of the worst wounds he treated on enemy personnel were caused by keyholed rounds from early M16's which had the wrong twist rate for the rounds supplied.  As far as reliability is concerned, why would you buy a first quality pistol and then shoot crap in it?  My Kahr K40 will not tolerate any ammo but high-quality stuff: "practice ammo" fails to feed, period.  Finally, regarding practice ammo, yesterday I discovered that Speer packages Gold Dot 124gr JHP ammo in loose, 250 round lots and labels it "practice ammo" at substantially cheaper cost than by the 20- or 50-round box!  ($70 per 250 rounds vice +/-$175 for 20-round boxes)

[Bandit]

so i guess we're all in agreement then that ANY criticism of the R9 is always per se invalid, that to question any aspect of its design is HERESY, and that anybody who disagrees is not enlightened as us!

now let's get back to our mantra...."Hare Krishna! Hare Krishna!  Hare, Hare......"

[MurrayNevada]

so i guess we're all in agreement then that ANY criticism of the R9 is always per se invalid, that to question any aspect of its design is HERESY, and that anybody who disagrees is not enlightened as us!

now let's get back to our mantra...."Hare Krishna! Hare Krishna!  Hare, Hare......"

No, but those of us who own both will most likely take issue with portions of the review.  In my opinion the reviewer loses some credibility when he writes that there is little difference in size of the two pistols.  As far as reliability is concerned, take a look at some of the gun boards.  It seems to be widely accepted that there is a great difference between the all steel Kahrs and the polymer ones.  Give a call to the Kahr gunsmiths and ask about some of the reliability problems with the polymer Kahrs.  

[Bandit]

No, but those of us who own both will most likely take issue with portions of the review.  In my opinion the reviewer loses some credibility when he writes that there is little difference in size of the two pistols.  As far as reliability is concerned, take a look at some of the gun boards.  It seems to be widely accepted that there is a great difference between the all steel Kahrs and the polymer ones.  Give a call to the Kahr gunsmiths and ask about some of the reliability problems with the polymer Kahrs.  

I understand the Kahr products have had issues, but the Kahr forum members do not consider it taboo to discuss the cons as well as the pros (and hopefully how to rectify or improve the cons).

I do not own a Rohrbaugh, but have been intrigued by things I have read, including on this forum.  It is difficult for me to spend $950, however, for a gun I cannot see and hold.  Since you own both, perhaps you could post comparison photos from different angles (yes, for the last time, I am aware of the photo of the non-working demo R9 alongside the cast mold pm9, but I'd like to see the actual guns together -- call me crazy).

I'd also still be interested to hear about the "clearing a jam" question I posed earlier.  Thanks.

[DDGator]

I was also offended by this statement:

Either gun would easily slip into a pocket, though holsters are available for them.

Followed by this statement:

The back of the front sight was angular enough that it could cause problems getting the gun out of a pocket, we thought, and that is something the individual owner would have to work out to his own satisfaction. Some pockets worked better than others for casual carry, we noticed. And there are “pocket holsters” that would provide a good solution to those who want or need them.


Am I being overly sensitive, or are they suggesting that either of these guns would be appropriate to carry in a pocket without a holster?    What kind of advice is that?  Sounds like they are saying carry in a pocket, and oh..by the way... if you really think its necessary there are some things out there called pocket holsters that you could try...

[RJ HEDLEY]

  They are trying to make a living selling their publication,  and are not to concerned with factual content.  

I feel the same way as you, about the way they just dusted over a safety issue..

[Datan]

This may not be a popular view and I know that everyone here enjoyed reading this article (even if not what was written).. do we feel okay about posting an article that should be paid for and is copyrighted?  My feeling is that whether we like the content or not, this article should not be posted unless we have permission to do so.  Think paraphrasing is okay... don't want the forum to get itself into trouble

[Bandit]

datan, why do you have to be such a wet blanket?  

justin is merely presenting the contents of the article to stimulate intellectual discussion and debate, much like a teacher who has her class discuss an article placed in a newspaper or magazine; do you and your wife share the morning newspaper, or do you insist on her paying for her own?

since he wasn't passing it off as his own words, and he is not profiting from it, i don't think he did anything wrong by passing it on

and i am still glad i didn't have to sign up for a 14 day free trial period (hee hee)  

[Datan]

Yeah.. I figured people would take my comment on this as a "wet blanket"..  guess if there is a free trial it is okay..  I was thinking about another forum that got hit with some minor legal crap in the form of a letter requiring the removal of an artical.  They were made to comply and it sounded like a hassle.  Didn't want to see this here.

[shelb]

Just another person's opinion, as far as I am concerned.  I had my first experience firing the Rohrbaugh today, and it was very positive.  If someone prefers the Kahr, more power to them, it is a fine weapon.

I could spend all day debunking aspects of this guys review or detailing what features I like better on one as opposed to the other, but in the end it is still my opinion.  A decision that fits my needs, and the Rohrbaugh fit them better than the Kahr.