Skyy Review in CCM

[DDGator]

My review of the new Skyy CPX-1 appears in the July issue of Concealed Carry Magazine that is hitting mailboxes right now.

If interested, you can read it here:

http://www.realworldcarrygear.com/Feature_Articles.html

[R9SCarry]

Thx Duane - now I am lusting to receive my issue - usually comes early compared to some.

[JimmyD]

My review of the new Skyy CPX-1 appears in the July issue of Concealed Carry Magazine that is hitting mailboxes right now.
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Interesting article. I see you borrowed the Rohrbaugh phrase "carried a lot, shot a little" when referring to the Skyy pistol.

For some reason, that phrase doesn't give me alot of confidence about a gun that's going to be used for personal protection. Ideally, if you are going to carry, you should carry something that you are proficient at shooting. How does one become proficient? By shooting....and shooting...and shooting. I don't know of any shortcuts. If you want to become proficient at flying, you fly alot. If you want to become proficient at hunting, you hunt alot. Same goes for shooting.

So, here's my question...if someone wanted to become proficient at shooting the Skyy or Rohrbaugh, how will they do it without shooting it alot? Should we buy 2 of each model, one for carry and one for practice? I'm not knocking the Skyy or Rohrbaugh and don't mean to upset anyone, I'm just trying to make sense of the "carry alot, shoot little" statement. That particular phrase certainly isn't a selling point in my opinion.

I also would like to congratulate you on the articles that you write, definitely some good reading!

[Ubik380]

  Buy a Skyy to shoot a lot and a Rohrbaugh to carry!

[tracker]

That's funny and misses his point but it has a practical
aspect to it. As to the point of practicing to achieve a
level of proficiency, how much and how often does one
have to practice just to pull a trigger on a longitudinal
axis to hit something 7-10 yards away? Granted, one has
to get the feel of the trigger pull and the recoil to achieve
a level of comfort and tactile ease but that does not take
much practice; as Dwayne has said,"this is not a gun for
beginners".
On the other hand flying an airplane involves three axes,
three dimensions, and numerous meteorlogical phenomena
to crank into the equation, so you had better be proficient
if you want to survive. Flying once a month in daylight VFR
will not get the job done; that is quite different than firing
an R-9.
Also being a successful hunter involves many more elements
and a higher level of skill to become proficient than is required
in shooting an R-9. There is no doubt that practice makes one
better with any activity; the question is how much is needed.

[JimmyD]

That's funny and misses his point but it has a practical
aspect to it. As to the point of practicing to achieve a
level of proficiency, how much and how often does one
have to practice just to pull a trigger on a longitudinal
axis to hit something 7-10 yards away?

Not much if all you are shooting at is a target, but what if your "target" is human and intent on doing you immediate harm in some way? Things are a bit different when someone is coming at you with a club/axe/weapon or are already pointing their gun at you. That's when your "training" should take over.

I think you also missed my point. What I was trying to say is that it takes practice at anything to become proficient. If you are going to carry a handgun for personal protection, I believe that you should be proficient at shooting it. From what you've said, you don't really need to practice that much. I'd have to disagree with you there.

Let's look at that statement again:

"Carry alot, shoot a little" and modify it somewhat..
"Carry alot, practice a little."

Hmmm...I think that makes my point (and concern) a little more obvious without completely changing the meaning of the phrase.

[tracker]

Then we need to train in simulated situations with
dynamic targets at a place like Gunsite; just pulling the
trigger at hundreds of rounds at paper, as you said, will not
do it either. It becomes an issue of the quality of training
not the quantity of training.
You said practice, not training; it is just like golf: you can
practice all day long but unless the proper technique and
focus is used, it will all be for nought. We all have different
skill levels and there is no one answer for everyone. If you
feel the need to shoot hundreds of rounds in the pup then by
all means do so.

[JimmyD]

If you feel the need to shoot hundreds of rounds in the pup then by all means do so.

That's what I'd like to do, but when the manufacturer of the "pup" tells you it wasn't designed to do that, that's when I start to worry. If I remember correctly, it was one of the Rohrbaugh brothers that coined the phrase "carry alot, shoot a little."

So, does that mean shoot a little at a time, or shoot a little for the whole lifetime of the gun? I can understand limiting range time to 50 rounds/session, but it would be nice to shoot 50 rounds per week for enough weeks that I can get comfortable with it. But if by saying "shoot a little" references the lifetime of the gun, then I'm not too comfortable with that.

[tracker]

I can understand your point because one could infer that
the gun may not stand up to a lot of shooting use. That
is probably not what they meant but I don't know.
Maybe that question should be posed to Karl.

[Richard S]

My two cents . . . .

If I want a handgun which will stand up to several thousand rounds before replacing some parts, I will use my 1911 or one of a my Guardians.  They're built like tanks and "ain't too particular."

Pistols such as the R9 and the Seecamp .380 are designs which push the envelope -- approaching the area where "bumble bees shouldn't be able to fly."  As Karl has said about the R9, it is intended to be carried a lot and shot a little.

 

[tracker]

Agree, Richard.

[pocketgun]

Duane, just curious how you obtained the CPX-1 you evaluated for the article?

[DDGator]

Jimmy,

Thanks for the comments on the article.  I think you missed my point a bit, although you raise valid points.

My comment was that the Skyy and all subcompact 9mms are designed to be carried a lot and shot a little.  This was not intended, by me, to be a comment on the life expectancy or durability of the Skyy, or any firearm.

As an aside, Karl Rohrbaugh certainly did not coin that phrase.  It has been around for a long time.  I have read it in many publications about many guns.  In fact, I think S&W has said the same thing about the 340 Scandium j-frame.

My comment related to the niche in which guns this size (and smaller) fit.  They are small and light to be easy to carry.  They are also generally uncomfortable to shoot -- small and light doesn't make for a comfortable shooting platform.  Ideally, we should all carry full-size guns.  We would be better protected and could shoot them all we want and enjoy it.  But – most of us don’t.  We compromise shootability for lighter weight (including alloy frames), shorter barrels, etc.  I often carry a S&W 340 PD with magnum loads.  I wouldn’t want to shoot 50 rounds a week…  It is another carry often and shoot a little gun.  However, I have been shooting j-frames for years, I have shot enough through this gun to know how it shoots, and I routinely practice with other (larger) wheel guns with an identical manual of arms.  I  also routinely practice my draw from concealment and dry firing.  I don’t feel the need to fire 50 magnum rounds a week, nor would I want to.  The gun would probably take it (or S&W would replace it), but my body might not.  Nevertheless, I feel well prepared and well protected.

Small guns are always a compromise – but if its all you can or will carry – it has to do.  That was all my comment was intended to convey.

As for Karl, I do think that he never intended for anyone to shoot 10,000 rounds through an R-9.  However, many people around here have fired a lot of rounds without appreciable wear.  I don’t think it makes the gun disposable or of a limited life.  However, like the Skyy – I wouldn’t suggest someone by an R-9 for their only gun, or shoot IPSC matches every week with it.

Duane (DDGator)

[DDGator]

Pocketgun,

I obtained it on arrangements from Skyy, through a local stocking dealer.  I honestly don't know if it was sent special for me or was part of that dealer's stock.

Duane (DDGator)

[JimmyD]

As an aside, Karl Rohrbaugh certainly did not coin that phrase.  It has been around for a long time.  I have read it in many publications about many guns.  

Thanks for pointing that out. The first time I heard it was in these forums, so I wrongly assumed Karl had come up with it. My intention wasn't to badmouth any of the guns, I hope that's not the impression I gave. I was just curious how others practiced their shooting skills with guns that weren't meant to be range guns.

Thanks for the reply and I'll be looking forward to reading more of your articles.

JD