I'm Confused About the .38/.357

[rtw]

I'm confused about the .38 spl, .38 spl +P and .357 effectiveness in short barrel revolvers-say 1 7/8"-3" barrels. Some people suggest that the barrels are too short for either the +P or .357 loadings to be any more effective than the standard .38 spl load, which has to do with powder burning and effective velocities.
 
Then, it gets even more confusing when bullet construction is added to the discussion. Will the hollow point adquately expand, for example, at the real velocity?

Can someone help me understand this...or point me to a site that has this described fully?

Thanks. Dick

[Erich]

Here's a site that may help with your first question: http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38vs357snub.htm

I own a chronograph - .357s do indeed head out of a short-barrelled revolver a lot faster than .38s, and a .38 +P of a given weight will be faster than a standard pressure round of the same weight from the same barrel.

Despite the never-tested-on-the-street hype about the Speer Gold Dot short barrel loads, in my experience hollow points do not open up very well in meat at the velocities they attain from .38 special snubs. (In the c. 150 handgun killings I've worked on, I've seen a few examples.) Others may have different experiences. In any event, I recommend mass for penetration above a hollow point at snub-level .38 velocities. I carry handloaded plated wadcutters, myself: they do just under 900 fps from a 1 7/8" bbl and right at 970 fps from a 3"er.

Anyway, it's a kettle of fish. Steve Camp's site is nice for the velocity question.  

[R9SCarry]

Dick - my thinking is simply that .357 loads are somewhat ''wasted'' thru say, a 2" snub - but that said - they are very significantly higher up the power ladder than any of the 38 loads, including +P.

Because the hot loads tend to have to use slower burning powders then a good bit of that goes to waste as noise and muzzle blast but - for me anyways - There is still a real bonus in power level.  Sorry no chrono figures to hand.  As Erich mentions tho Steve Camp's site has a lot of comparitive and useful data.

IMO .357 loads begin to really perform from 4" barrel and up - but would still consider them well useful in snubs, providing the ''pain factor'' not excessive for the shooter!!

When I carried my SP-101 I did compromize tho and stoked with 110 CorBon +P rounds.

[Richard S]

Dick:

I just returned to home base after a trip accross the state and have seen yoiur post.  I can't offer much of value to add to what Erich and Chris have written except to say that I always try to push (not exceed) a handgun's capabilities when it comes to ammunition.  In a short barreled pistol or revolver, I tend to follow the "big and slow" theory.  However, if one of my CCW handguns will tolerate +P (or +P+  ) ammunition, that is probably what I will use to stoke it.

As for choosing among .38 spl, .38 spl +P and .357 in a snubby revolver, I would practice with them all but carry the .357.  (The muzzle blast alone would be worh it.  

[WoodstockDoug]

In a scandium Smith and Wesson 340PD, the "pain factor" between .38 special and .357 is remarkable.  The .38 hurts a lot.  +p hurts much more.  .357 makes your hand feel like a Karate Black Belt just hit your palm with his hardest snap kick, and you were stupid enough to try to catch it.

Then again, after 100 rounds or so, it seems to get easier.  Either you learn to hold the gun better to minimize the recoil, or else the nerve damage has become permanent and you just don't mind so much anymore.  Regardless, after getting used to .357 loads in a 340Pd, the recoil from a R9 just doesn't seem worth mentioning.

For my next trick, I'm going to start judging Texas Chile contests.  
 

[R9SCarry]

[size=13] Either you learn to hold the gun better to minimize the recoil, or else the nerve damage has become permanent[/size]

Haha - I think Doug it could also be that after that many shots - the blood has started to really congeal!

[tracker]

If you carry a 357 and use it I hope you have good insurance
that covers state of the art digital hearing aids.

[Richard S]

Tracker:

I couldn't quite hear you.  Could you speak a little louder please?  

[Aglifter]

If you can conceal it -- I have some pachmeyer "gripster" grips on mine, which have the recoil down to a very tolerable level.

[tracker]

You have the picture, Richard.

[Richard S]

For my next trick, I'm going to start judging Texas Chile contests.  
 

Since I pledged not to "drift a thread" without permission, I've started a new one on the subject of chile -- which I consider one of the essential food groups.