Milwaukee mob beats driver

[sslater]

Since many Rohrbaugh Forum members carry concealed, I thought I'd bounce this topic around and see what other members think.

A 50 year old driver was pulled from his vehicle, beaten, & left for dead by a crowd of young males ages 15 to 23.  The driver apparently blew his horn in an effort to move the young men standing in the street, blocking his path.

I know it's difficult to be at "Condition Yellow" or "Red" all the time, but wouldn't your spider senses be tingling if you saw fifteen or twenty gang bangers blocking the street?  Mine would.  And my windows are always rolled up, doors locked when driving.  Especially when I have to go into Detroit - which is as infrequently as I can arrange it.

Forget about trying to get your carry piece or bug into play.  Too many bad guys, unless you are as fast as Jerry Miciluk (sp??).
The weapon you're in is much more powerful anyway.  And the trigger is under your right foot.  The gas pedal.  Stomp it.  The only thing that would stop me in that situation would be if I high-centered on the pile of bodies.

I had a similar experience back in 1964 in Philadelphia just before the riots.  I was in college and had parked my car on the street about three blocks from school.  As I pulled away from the curb I found my path blocked by two guys walking straight toward the front of the car, and another two coming at the front doors.  I had a 1960 Impala two door hardtop with a 348 Tri Power engine and a Hurst floor shift 3 speed manual trans.  Cranked the motor to 3,400 rpm & sidestepped the clutch.  My "visitors" jumped clear.  Good thing too, because I wasn't gonna swerve to avoid them.  Ran the red light at the corner and never parked near that area again.

Steve.  

[FireBreather01]

This is at least the 5th or 6th mob beating in Milwaukee in the last 2 years or so. We are in the middle of trying to pass a concealed carry law here and events like this point to the seriousness of personal protection. No matter what the nay-sayers want to make of it, it is not mere conjecture to say that this man may have walked (driven) away from this unharmed if he had a gun with him.

About 6 months ago another man ran into the wrong crowd at an area convenience store, it seems he was from Arkansas and got turned around, stopped for directions and some local thugs decided they 'needed' his car. They took his cane, real nice bunch, and started beating him with it and kicking, punching , etc. What you won't see in the local press is a comparison of the outcomes in these two situations.

Mr. Arkansas just happened to have a .44 under his front seat and as the beat-down commenced he reached under the seat, and while various blows were raining down on him, he turned and fired a perfect shot at the guy closest to him - put a .44 slug right through his brain - end of attack, bad guys run - Mr. Arkansas walks away. Well at least he did after spending a weekend in our jail while our idiot county prosecutor weighed whether or not to charge him with something - he didn't, thankfully.

I agree that the guy in the most recent case here should have gunned the car and drove through them but things happen fast. I know if it were me, my hand would have already been wrapped around a grip.

[JP]

Good luck to you in passing your concealed carry in Wisconsin, sounds like you need it urgently. It is sickening that the press is so vehemently against good people trying to make their neighborhoods a better place by making these hoods think twice about their actions. I know I'm preaching to the choir here. We here in Michigan had non stop newspaper articles about how lawlessness was going to be common because road rage and such would cause bullets to fly. Not a peep now that it is just the oposite.
Again, good luck, and i'm certain the NRA is once again on top of the situation and is there to help the cause.

[flyandscuba]

I'd probably slow down (leaving a little space to escape if needed) and see if they -- finally -- made way to pass.  If for some reason, it appeared that the mob was encircling the vehicle, getting rowdy (threatening actions), and I truly becoame concerned for my safety then the use of deadly force would be employed. Legal in Florida if you feel your life is endangered, no one says the "defensive weapon of choice" must be a firearm -- the automobile would be used at a moderate speed to make my way to safety.  A cell phone call to 911 would be placed (immediately while driving) to notify the police and request medical assistance for the assailants while I drove to the nearest police or fire station.

Though the possibility (probability) that criminal charges would result, I'd rather take my chances with a jury of my peers.  If the DA could be convinced that my actions were truly self defense to prevent serious bodily injury or death to myself, Florida's new "stand your ground" self defense law may prohibit the assailants or their relatives from pursuing civil legal action against me.

It would be an interesting test case for sure!  One way or the other, I'd still be alive and physically unharmed.

[Richard S]

Fly:

Good analysis of a difficult situation.  We are trying to get a "Stand Your Ground" statute passed here in Tennessee.  Wish us luck.

[alfonso2501]

...I agree that the guy in the most recent case here should have gunned the car and drove through them but things happen fast...

I saw this incident on CNN recently & was thinking the same thing; Give it the gas & go! Your car is your best weapon in a situation like this. Now I’m thinking that if he had done so someone would have gotten his plate number & called the cops, & the media would have turned it into “crazed man runs down innocent kids playing stick ball”. Dammed if you do & dammed if you don’t I guess!

This makes me want to ask: How many of us actually take the time out to lock the doors after we get into our cars?

[R9SCarry]

Locking doors after getting in is rare for me - but that is due I guess to semi-rural living!  I do tho think much more deeply if for instance I am driving in Pittsburgh in some areas - fortunately rare.

It angers me immensely that we have such incidents - and certainly the vehicle is probably the best weapon.  I also wonder tho if we (those of us who carry) would just maybe have considered worst-case aspects on approach - and made a decision to back up - turn around, and find alternative route.

OTOH dammit why should we even have to think of this but - as a CCW I have to place avoidance above all else - nothing to do with state laws and whether I am obliged to retreat - I will anyways if possible.

A gun with that many punks to deal with may well not be an answer at all - you could find yourself facing the suicidal hoard (per VC or Japs in wartime) - and if out of ammo - then even a few would for sure finish you.

Get out of Dodge - my choice!

[Aglifter]

We have these bumpers called "ranch hands" in Texas... weigh a few hundred pounds -- meant to keep the car in good shape after you hit a deer going dowm tje highway

[Brenden]

Sorry thing is..
Looks like WI will pass Shall Issue tis time..
But the Gov. is sure to veto!!

Hopefully I would have at least tried to go thru the gang of thugs with my vehicle!!

I think that he felt no harm in doing what he was doing-nor where he was doing it!! To HIS great harm!!

Wishing him a fast recovery-and hope they find the thugs that did this..

Brenden

[FireBreather01]

I saw this incident on CNN recently & was thinking the same thing; Give it the gas & go! Your car is your best weapon in a situation like this. Now I’m thinking that if he had done so someone would have gotten his plate number & called the cops, & the media would have turned it into “crazed man runs down innocent kids playing stick ball”. Dammed if you do & dammed if you don’t I guess!

This makes me want to ask: How many of us actually take the time out to lock the doors after we get into our cars?

alfonso -
I completely agree about this guy being labeled a 'hit'n'run' driver if he had driven through/over these kids (barbarians). This is the sort of thing that works against decent folks. Most folks are kind and decent enough and that works against us - the thought of driving over multiple bodies to get out of harms way overwhelms the thought of fleeing what they cannot possibly comprehend - that they themselves are about to be treated as just so much alley-meat.

That is why when it comes to self-defense one must be prepared to do things that would normally be shocking to behold, and I'm sorry to be so graphic but...

Are we prepared to see someone's head literally explode in front of our eyes from a defensive shot and we get covered with their blood and brains? Can you stomach the thought of another's arm being removed from a misplaced shot? Can you live with driving over 3 - 5 punks and hear/feel your tires spin on their tissues and body fluids. This is tough stuff - enough to make anyone pause and lose a critical element of surprise and decisiveness. Although I would like to think I am tough enough and decisive enough to overcome these instantaneous thoughts, in the heat of a defensive situation, I wonder....

[theirishguard]

FB01, what is holding up the carry bill in Wisc., even the republic of Minnesota has a carry bill/
Tom

[RJ HEDLEY]

I played the ,"get outa Dodge'' game twice now."   Both times it was with our black brothers. [is this PC enough to stick?]

I had gone to St Petersburg to visit a friend, on the way back home, I made a wrong turn, and ended up in a  Bad area.   The road was blocked by a gang of " Youths" playing stick ball. [1:30 in the AM]  They spotted me and decided to make me "the BALL"..

I did a quick reverse and a right turn to make my  escape with beer bottles bouncing off my car..


The other time , I was driving thru a grove area,  and as I round a turn, I see the road blocked by 8 or 10 black brothers, holding hands.   I shifted to a lower gear and floored it.  I was given "Clear passage"  and Cheers of WELL WISHES !  

This will be my plan for the "Next time'' too.

[flyandscuba]

Did you have the Dodge with the Hemi then??  I'd have loved to see you "part the masses"!  

[FireBreather01]

FB01, what is holding up the carry bill in Wisc., even the republic of Minnesota has a carry bill/
Tom

One thing and one thing only - our idiot governor - Doyle. We have a clear veto override majority in the State Senate and have a not a single vote to spare a veto in the State assembly. We need 66 votes for a veto override - and 66 voted for the original bill.

We had exactly the same situation last year. Doyle vetoed the bill and then one of the original SPONSORS of the bill, Gary Sherman, who voted for it, and had actually written editorials supporting CCW, then switched his vote and voted to uphold the veto. If I ever get to meet that man in person I will delight in telling him how gutless and dishonorable I believe him to be.

Doyle's promised veto will be scheduled for override in February, it will easily be overridden in the Senate, but with 6 dems needed in the Assembly for an override, it's anyone's guess.

[theirishguard]

Is it not wonderful that a small minority can control what happens in government?
Tom