Latest XR9 info.

[riffraff]

I received an email reply to my info. request.

It is a DAO with second strike capeability.

Trigger was said to be 6lbs.

Expected shipping was said to be this year.

That is all I got but that is about all I asked for except approximate price which was not given.

Mike

[ccoorreeyy]

If he starts shipping this year that would be cool.  I would think the start up cost on something like this would be huge.  I look forward to reading real life reviews on this gun.  May be worth investing in one for any collector value of a low serial number (if mass production ever happened) or one of few if it was a flop.

[DDGator]

You are referring to the Boberg XR9.  I handled one at the show.  The company was sharing a booth with someone else, and the Boberg rep was sick the day I was at the booth, so I didn't get to speak to him.

I did handle the gun.  Its large and heavy.  Its certainly very unusual.  Not in the same class as an R-9 to me -- not  a pocket gun.  Honestly, I am not entirely sure what the market would be for this gun.  It certainly is something different, and presents a new approach.  

For a carry gun, I would worry about support and parts in case this tiny company goes under.  I also would guess it is going to be pretty hard to get leather for it.

I have a photo from the show I will try to remember to post later.

[riffraff]

Duane,

I understand your comments.  I would just like to add my experiences:

I do not and will not ever carry my R9 in my pocket.  I agree that the gun does not appear to be in the same class as the R9.

I hope to God that the gun in question is manufactured a little better than the R9 and all this extensive factory support will not be required for it.

As far as a market.  I have 2 very capeable 9's which I will not trade or sell UNLESS a smaller(single stack mag) 9mm comes on the market.  Unfortunately, the 2 9's that I find most ergonimical in form and function are both double stackers which I find totally unessary in anything except a gun that one expects to engage in 'combat' with.

Personally I just like small.  Full power, full function but single stack mag, etc.  None of the other single stack 9's in existance meet my ergonomic and function requirements.

I am very interested in this gun which means it will not ever be available or will be out of my price range(sigh).

Very strange.  I like my rifles big(50BMG) and I like my handguns small.  I can't explain why.  It just is.

Mike

[DDGator]

I have to take exception to your comment implying that there are problems with the manufacturing of the R-9, or that the R-9 is not manufacturered to the higest standards.  My views on this are well known and I won't repeat them in detail here.

Many people do carry the R-9 in a pocket, and that is what it was designed to be -- a pocket gun.

I don't have the stats handy, but I am not sure the XR-9 is much smaller some of the single-stack S&W "third generation" 9mm autoloaders.

If you don't want to carry in a pocket, I don't see how an inch here or there makes much of a difference -- although single v. double stack definitely does.

If you don't carry the R-9 in your pocket, I can see why you have issues with it.  I don't think it makes a great belt gun, and if you are willing to carry on a belt there are other better alternatives.

[riffraff]

DDGator,

My 'issues' with the R9 have nothing to do with size or weight.  I think you are extrapolating things from my post that are not correct.

Mike

[DDGator]

Not directly, but the problems of which you have spoken in the past are related to the extremely small size/weight of the gun.  Reliability with a variety of ammo, durability in shooting lots of rounds, ability to handle +P loads, etc. are all a lot easier when you are willing to carry a larger/heavier gun--even if only slightly larger and heavier.

My point is that if you are carrying on a belt and pocket-size is not an issue -- I wouldn't carry an R-9 for that application either.

[riffraff]

Duane,

Yes, exactly.  Your first paragraph is dead on.  That is why I feel that the functioning and reliability of the R9 would be drastically improved with a little added weight as in a SS frame.

Think of it like this:  no matter how sharp your sword is if you throw a feather up in the air and attempt to cut it, chances are you are going to fail.  If you throw something with a little more weight up in the air and slash at it with a sharp sword you will probably have no problem.

What I am trying to get at is I have come to the conclusion that most of the people who have had problems with reliabilithy with the R9 are like me.  Skinny fingers and no real meat on their bones.  Even if persons such as this DO NOT limp wrist they seem to have problems with functioning.  I have gathered that the beefier types are the ones who tend not to have any functioning problems.

I have become firmly convinced that a SS frame would make the R9 much, much more less "finiky" than the present aluminum framed version.

Well, these are my conclusions.  So what do you guys think?

Mike

[DDGator]

Personally, I don't think it the weight of the frame that aids in function, but the weight (or better yet, the mass) of the slide.  That is why full-size polymer guns like a Glock run great even though the frames weigh next to nothing.

However, I am not a firearms designer so I know little of what I speak.

IMHO, a stainless frame on the R-9 (it always comes back to this, doesn't it?) would make the gun potentially more durable and potentially last for a much higher round count and would lessen the perceived recoil (not the actual recoil, but that is a different story).

However, lessening the percieved recoil and adding that degree of durability were not the design parameters as I understand them -- it was to build the smallest, lightest 9mm and make it suitable for pocket carry.

Incidentally, I took my R-9 Elite out to the range this weekend and pumped 100 completely trouble free rounds through it in about 45 minutes.  I wouldn't normally do that, but I was testing K-Man's new wood grips.  

[riffraff]

Duane,

I am not a mechanical engineer either.

Your analogy to the much larger polymer framed guns and the R9 is not comparable in my experience.

YES, IT DOES ALWAYS COME BACK TO THE SS FRAME AND ALWAYS WILL.  I can't help it if you don't like it.

Anyone else have any opinions.

Mike

[harrydog]

What I am trying to get at is I have come to the conclusion that most of the people who have had problems with reliabilithy with the R9 are like me.  Skinny fingers and no real meat on their bones.  Even if persons such as this DO NOT limp wrist they seem to have problems with functioning.  I have gathered that the beefier types are the ones who tend not to have any functioning problems.

I have become firmly convinced that a SS frame would make the R9 much, much more less "finiky" than the present aluminum framed version.

Well, these are my conclusions.  So what do you guys think?

Mike

So you're still having problems? It's my understanding that virtually everyone who had problems with their R9 have had them resolved after changing all the springs to the latest design, particularly the mag springs. I know that's the case with me. I was frustrated for a LONG time with my R9 but since the new mag springs it's been 100% and I've regained total confidence in it.
I'm also an advocate of an all SS version of the gun, but for durability reasons, not reliability.

[riffraff]

harrydog,

No not really.  The more powerful mag springs helped a great deal and as long as I stick with one of the 4 loads I have found through very extensive testing, my R9's function fine.  One of the loads tumbles every time so that one is out and another is a Fiocchi load that is kind of rare.  The other 2 are Winchester loads and are easy to get via UPS.
I can live with them but I don't like the ammo restrictions.

I still have not fired the guns with my new brass grips yet.  This will tell me for sure if added frame weight really will aid functioning or my heavier frame theory is totally wrong.

I will keep the board informed.

I apologize to the board.  I am off the XR9 topic of the thread.

Mike