Cylinder & Slide SFS System

[Richard S]

The July/August 2005 edition of American Handgunner has an article by Jim Gardner at page 48 entitled, "Condition Five? Cylinder & Slide's SFS 'Widget' Makes the Impossible-- Possible."  The article describes the Safety Fast Shooting (SFS) System developed by Bill Laughridge.  Gardner describes it as follows:

[size=10]"Once installed, this clever conversion allows you to place your pistol in the instant-readiness of 'condition one,' but without a visibly cocked hammer. . . .

"Here's how it works.  After installing the SFS conversion in your Hi-power or 1911 (fits series 80 pistols too), you make-ready by loading the pistol in the normal manner, then simply push the hammer spur forward until it rests against the slide.  The large ambidextrous safety will rise automatically into the safe position.  When ready to fire, simply disengage the safety and the hammer will snap smartly to full-cock.  Ready to make safe?  Just push the hammer forward -- it's that easy."[/size]

Here is a link to the C&S web page on the SFS System:

http://www.cylinder-slide.com/sfs.shtml

I'm inclined to order one of the SFS kits for my 1911 (a Clark-customized Colt 1991A1 Series 80).  Does anyone on the Forum have any experience with the system?  

[RJ HEDLEY]

That sounds very neat.  The vendor has a good reputation..  I seems to be reversible if you don't care for it..

[rtw]

That sounds very, very neat.

I sold my 1911 and switched to a revolver because I wasn't comfortable with cocked and locked, particularly for a home defense situation- I was always concerned with an accidental discharge.

[DDGator]

I have seen this system and played with a 1911 equiped with this system.

It seems to me that someone... maybe Springfield? ... offered this on a limited number of new models.

Anyway, I think its a neat feature -- but ultimately kind of pointless.  An unmodified 1911 won't fire unless the safety comes off and the trigger is pulled.  The same is true with this SFS modification.  If the safety is somehow snicked off and the trigger pulled, it will fire.

This is really an appearance of additional safety only.  The potential engergy is still stored somewhere -- there is no real engergy that has to be put into this system to put it into firing condition.  

I think this modification is good for making the gun look safer, and that may make people who see you carrying (like in a duty holster) feel better about themselves, but that is about it.  

I read that same article and almost wrote to the magazine to point this out...  

Just my opinion.

[theirishguard]

At one time awhile ago Seecamp made a double action kit that could be installed on a 1911. It was well made and worked. One might be able to find one of these double action kits, if you look hard enough. RJ, would Larry make any more of these?    Tom

[DDGator]

I don't mean to sound cranky about this -- but this still seems like a solution in search of a problem.

Anyone dead set on a DA 1911 would be well-served with a Para LDA (light double action) gun.

[RJ HEDLEY]

"At one time awhile ago Seecamp made a double action kit that could be installed on a 1911. It was well made and worked. One might be able to find one of these double action kits, if you look hard enough. RJ, would Larry make any more of these?"   Tom
___________________________________

I know of the kit you speak of.  It was well made, but required some pretty extensive machine work   You remember the trigger guard was squared off,  that's because the trigger guard was removed, so as to access the frame behind the trigger.  A hole was bored upward on an angle to install the double action link from the "new" trigger to the hammer.  This was not an easy install.  And not easy to explain.
Someone came out with the kit and a modified frame,  did not sell,  was not a "do it yourself job" for the average Joe..
Don't think they will ever be made again.

[sslater]

From my admittedly limited experience, Cylinder & Slide is a first class outfit.  Bill Laughridge, the owner, has been chosen the 2005 Pistolsmith of the Year.  
I checked their website and found this description of the SFS mechanism:
http://www.cylinder-slide.com/index.htm

Fast Reaction Time.  The pistol is always ready to shoot and safe with a cartridge in the chamber.  
The trigger always returns to the same position.
The trigger movement and the trigger pull remain the same for each shot as with a conventional single action pistol.
The trigger over travel stop improves the stability of the pistol during firing.
Three safeties, locking the slide, locking the sear, and locking the hammer, are all activated or deactivated in one operation.
The operation is simple and ambidextrous.
Low Price.
Thanks to the reduced size of the hammer, it is easier and safer to draw the pistol from its holster.
The S.F.S. kit drops into an existing pistol.
(
C&S has offered this item for several years now.)

I would expect a handy amateur, who has stripped and (successfully!) reassembled a 1911 or Browning HP could get thru the installation without too much trouble.  

[Richard S]

I personally have no problem carrying a 1911 in Condition One, provided it has a grip safety and a firing pin lockout system.  Jim Gardner may have summed up the entire justification for the SFS System in the following words from his recent article in American Handgunner:

[size=10]Why does it matter, anyway?  In a day where double action and striker-fired autopistols are the norm, carrying a cocked gun raises eyebrows among the uninformed.  Also, there are circumstances -- a pistol stored in a bedside drawer for example -- where 'cocked and locked' may not be the best choice, yet the pistol must be instantly ready.

[/size]  

[size=13]It has been my experience that some people who are otherwise comfortable with the knowledge that I carry a weapon become "antsy" if they happen to catch a glimpse of my 1911 and notice that it is "cocked and locked."  (I once served under a commanding officer who forbade his troops to carry their sidearms in Condition One within his headquarters compound.  The order applied even to the MPs at the gate and the guards on perimeter duty.  Go figure that one!)

When I read about the SFS System, it just seemed to me that it might provide what has been described as "an appearance of political correctness" while still maintaining the pistol in a condition of instant readiness.[/size]

[DDGator]

Richard,

I agree with what you said, and "part 1" of the explanation.  I see no difference, however, in putting a 1911 in Condition 1 in a drawer and putting one in Condition 1 with the hammer pushed down against the frame.

Nor do I understand why putting a pistol in Condition 1 in a drawer is bad...  It may not provide the required level of security, but he seems to imply there is a mechanical reason not to to this.

The whole concept has me scratching my head...  

[theirishguard]

I agree with Duane. The standard 1911 type pistol carried condition one is fine with me. However, if the Para LDA was available in an officers model with an alloy frame I would own it.
The heck with PC, if you carry concealed, no one knows you have it. So whether the hammer is up or down makes no difference. I still think cocked and locked is the only way.  
Tom

[RJ HEDLEY]

And all this brings the Half cocked Glock to mind, with its super easy  safety trigger ??  How many ND's or AD's have you heard of with this pistol ?  Usually re holstering

[Richard S]

Duane:

The truth of the matter is that I also fail to understand the "stored in a drawer" explanation.  The same number of actions (two -- 1. disengage safety lever; 2. pull trigger) would be required to fire a standard 1911 stored in Condition One or a 1911 modified with the SFS System stored in the so-called "Condition Five."  As for myself, I routinely keep my LaserMax-equipped 1911 on the night stand at night, "cocked and locked," in a quick-release gun box.

[mefly2]

As was said above, my Detonics converted to Seecamp DA (purchased approx 1980) shows considerable machining to hold the new DA mechanism.  I rather doubt that any but the best of pistolsmiths would even attempt the installation of a "kit" if offered by Seecamp.  The mechanism bears a striking resembelance to the Rohrbaugh design.

mefly2
  

[RJ HEDLEY]

Seecamp collected a lot of Royalties from their Patented designs.  But I think most of them are up for grabs now due to the time limitations on such things.  

This may not be exactly right so somebody straighten me up..