Author Topic: Showed off R9 at Sig Arms - Possible FTF cause  (Read 1942 times)

Offline jarcher

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Showed off R9 at Sig Arms - Possible FTF cause
« on: December 12, 2005, 01:13:56 AM »
Hi All

I took an excellent class at Sig Arms Academy this weekend.  It was a class about IPSC shooting and was taught by Bruce Gray, who is a top-notch gun smith and former IPSC champion shooter.  Bruce is one of the nicest guys in the world and he really, really knows his stuff.

A few people were bringing along unusual guns for the rest of us to shoot.  People brought the new Sig Mosquito with an AAC suppressor, a Sauer P210 and a Sig X5.  Sig Arms let us shoot their 550 series rifles (in full auto).  So, I decided to bring the R9s along.

Most people who looked at it were pretty impressed with it and only one had ever heard of it.  On Sunday we were shooting indoors on a frangible only range.  So, I loaded up a magazine of Federal frangible ammo and handed it to Bruce.  At 45 yards, it took him a few rounds to figure out where to aim (low and right) but after that he knocked over a steel plate every shot.  In total, about 6 guys (including me) each put a magazine or two through it.  There were no failures of any type.  Bruce said about the R9 “That’s cool! I like that!”  

Frangible ammo can have a tendency to induce failures in the best of pistols, so the complete lack of a failure was, I admit, a bit of a surprise.  I was sure pleased!  Even the X5 was having some (but not much) trouble with the ammo.

I explained to Bruce the problems many of us have had.  I described the tipped up round and the observation that it seems to clear up after the recoil spring gets a bit old.  Bruce suggested this might be a “magazine timing issue.”  He said that a new recoil spring might be causing the slide to cycle too quickly, such that it tries to scoop up the round from the mag before the round has come to the top of the magazine completely.  He said that is a common cause of that type of tipped up round failure.

I then asked if a stronger magazine spring might help and he said yes, but too strong a spring could cause other problems.  I said it seemed that there is a delicate balance between the strength of the springs and Bruce agreed and said that it becomes more delicate as the slide has less mass.


WARNING WILL ROBINSON! I want to caution that these were more like off hand comments than anything else.  Bruce didn’t actually witness any failure at all and this opinion was offered completely on my description of the problem and not on his testing.  He did not examine the R9 in great detail.  I’m not trying to put words in Bruce’s mouth or claim that he knows what any problem, if one exists, might be, nor did Bruce say that there ws any problem.  


Overall, the R9 was very well received.  Everyone who was interested liked it and some of us were even able to knock down that little white plate down at 15 yards!

« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 11:33:16 AM by jarcher »

Offline Buz

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Re: Showed off R9 at Sig Arms - Possible FTF cause
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2005, 10:50:58 AM »
Well that explanation sure sounds plausible.  

So I guess the relationship between both the recoil spring and the mag spring must be perfectly complimentary; kind of like a recipricating engine if you will.  Maybe the mag springs just aren't EXACTLY right for the gun recoil spring.(analogous to an engine "misfiring")

I believe this theory because the gun just seems so well put together to malfunction so frequently.

Buz

Offline WoodstockDoug

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Re: Showed off R9 at Sig Arms - Possible FTF cause
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2005, 12:50:05 PM »
A stronger recoil spring could cause problems, but what harm would a stronger magazine spring cause?  

I'm not going to "fix" mine until it has problems to fix.  But, that does sound like a plausible theory for some of the problems that have come up.

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: Showed off R9 at Sig Arms - Possible FTF cause
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2005, 06:31:18 PM »
Thx for the write-up Jim - most gratifying to know the pup digested all that frangible stuff!

I too still have my thoughts on the spring issue - and comments tend to support my theory somewhat.  Certainly if we see the slide/mag timing as critical then this can be a factor.

My main concern with mags is less the spring, which has always seemed to me to be adequate - than to be dead certain the follow is free as can be.  That said - a modest uprating of the mag spring by 10% - bit like uprated Wolff springs do for many 1911 mags could be useful.  Sure as eggs, that top round wants to be fully ''up there'' to get stripped off nice and clean with no tip-up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

dratted typos - need to get some digital reduction so as to hit just one key at a time :D
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 06:32:29 PM by R9SCarry »
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Offline Brenden

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Re: Showed off R9 at Sig Arms - Possible FTF cause
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2005, 06:46:18 PM »
jarcher,
Well I like to see too that the pup held it's own with the frangible's.. ;D

I know that mags have caused more problems for me with feeding in semi's than most anything else.. :(

I believe the springs for the mag are made by Wollf,so should be up to snuff..

I also believe that the mags are one thing that are "lagging" in the production mode for the Brothers..

I have not had a problem with feeding in either my Farmingdale era or my Deer Park model..

BTW,what grain are those rounds that you shot?

Brenden
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Offline jarcher

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Re: Showed off R9 at Sig Arms - Possible FTF cause
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2005, 04:51:58 PM »
The ammo was Federal BallistiClean, 106 grain.  Part number BC9NT3A.