some concerns

[rooster]

 Approx. 7 months ago a friend shows up at our IPSC range with this new 9mm r9 pocket pistol, We  probably shot about 70 flawless rnds thru it.  Based on this experience I ordered one waited 6 months paid an arm and a leg and finaly got mine.  I have approx 275 flawless rnds of 4 different kinds of ammo thru it and I am totaly happy.  About a month ago my friend and I go to the range and he starts having problems with his r9, failure to chamber, rnd stuck up on the chamber.  Now he is worried, he takes it home cleans, lubes, and we go back to the range yesterday.  Now we get to some serious issues, the last 2 rnds in the mags stand straight up, the gun starts to leave an empty case halfway in the chamber, we could only shoot about 20 rnds before we gave up.  We even tried my mags.  Here I am in the next lane just shooting away with mine.  Needless to say he is pretty pissed, and will be sending the gun back soon.  I don't understand how with all this cnc, cmc, and every bit of technology that these high end guns don't work 100% of the time.  Manufactures tout that there machinery holds all these tight tolerences but still we have problems.  Thes guns only have about 20 parts if I make everyone the same they should work.  I know that these guns are pushing the envelope, but I am seeing more and more posts of problems on this site.  Will my friend really be comfortable carrying this when he gets it back?  I was at a gun show last week and these guns are pushing the 1200.00 mark.  For that kind of money they should run strong hand, weak hand, any position, any quality ammo.  Some of the posts say give it time, shoot more, break it in, bear with it, it'l get better.  No way.

[Aglifter]

Just for curiousity, is your friend rotating magazines?  I rotate mine once a month, and haven't had any problems -- and, I'm beginning to think that it might be a spring issue -- since, as you correctly stated, it would seem very odd if something was wrong w. the machining -- as for being able to shoot all types of ammo, I understand why it can't do that -- not a problem w. the gun, but rather the tolerances are too sloppy on certain types of ammo.

[Aglifter]

As far as it needing a break-in -- some types of equipment, including almost all guns, to various degrees just need it -- I have some industrial equipment showing up that takes a month to seat properly -- I asked if there was any way to avoid that, since I didn't want to wait a month, and was told, it just takes a month and there's nothing to be done....

[theirishguard]

rooster, are you guys watching each other shoot? Are you shooting his gun and so on? What ammo are you shooting?
Are others shooting?
Tom

[sslater]

I don't understand how with all this cnc, cmc, and every bit of technology that these high end guns don't work 100% of the time.  Manufactures tout that there machinery holds all these tight tolerences but still we have problems.

Computer Numerical Control machines are very consistent.
They can make thousands of parts exactly alike.  But if the design isn't right, all those thousands of parts will malfunction the same exact way!  
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the Rohrbaugh design, just that CNC machined parts aren't magically better than conventionally made ones.  The R9 pistol is just pushing the envelope for power in a small package.  


My gun was built in July of this year.  First 200 rounds - flawless.  Changed recoil spring because it had shortened by two full coils.  Problems started.  (Double feeds.)  
Finally, the problems subsided after another 100 rounds.  My new recoil spring is now one coil shorter than a new one, and my FTFs are limited to one magazine.
Yesterday, I pulled all three of my mags apart for inspection and measurements.  They are very consistent.  Springs are all the same length within a few thousandths of an inch (I rotate the mags monthly.)
I did find the feed lips on the "problem" mag were open about 0.005" than the other two mags, so I tweaked that mag.  But that mag will be for practice only until it proves itself.

[Michigunner]

Steve,

Thanks for checking so carefully, and reporting the results.

They are much appreciated.

Bill

[rooster]

We are both seasoned shooters, he is a B class Ipsc shooter, and I am a master class shooter, we tried all the mags, same problem.  After I started this post I got to thinking maybe the tight tolerences are part of the problem.  If you want an accurate pistol you need to keep the tolerences tight so everything returns to the same place for every shot.  For a flawless pistol things might need to be a little less critical so that there is a little room for error.  The tight tolerences might be a factor, there is no room for error because everything is so tight.  I also just looked at my recoil spring and it is 2 coils shorter so I swapped it out, I sure hope I didn't open a can of worms.

[Richard S]

As far as it needing a break-in -- some types of equipment, including almost all guns, to various degrees just need it ....

In that regard, the following are some comments from Dave Anderson's review of STI's new Tactical 1911 in the January/February 2006 edition of American Hangunner (p. 80):

     "After disassembling, cleaning, and lubing the Tactical, I shot it with a variety of factory loads from Black Hills, Federal, Speer and Winchester, varying from 200-grain lead semi-wadcutters to +P 230 grain hollowpoints.  * * *

     "There were two failures to feed from the first magazine, and another two from the second magazine, both while using SWC ammunition.  In all cases the bullet nose was stubbed into the feed ramp.  Thinking the pistol might have a touch of new-gun tightness I got out a box of Black Hills 230-grain jacketed ball and quickly burned all 50 rounds through the gun.  This proved to be the fix, as there were no subsequent malfunctions.  It's not uncommon for a new autopistol to need some shooting to smooth up its operation, though a bit unusual for an STI."

Happily, I have not experienced any failures to feed (or any other glitch for that matter) in my early-issue R9.  However, if even a vaunted STI 1911 .45 may occasionally "need some shooting to smooth up its operation," it seems logical to assume that the same would apply to a semi-automatic as small and powerful and precisely machined as the R9.  

[Brenden]

In that regard, the following are some comments from Dave Anderson's review of STI's new Tactical 1911 in the January/February 2006 edition of American Hangunner (p. 80):

     "After disassembling, cleaning, and lubing the Tactical, I shot it with a variety of factory loads from Black Hills, Federal, Speer and Winchester, varying from 200-grain lead semi-wadcutters to +P 230 grain hollowpoints.  * * *

     "There were two failures to feed from the first magazine, and another two from the second magazine, both while using SWC ammunition.  In all cases the bullet nose was stubbed into the feed ramp.  Thinking the pistol might have a touch of new-gun tightness I got out a box of Black Hills 230-grain jacketed ball and quickly burned all 50 rounds through the gun.  This proved to be the fix, as there were no subsequent malfunctions.  It's not uncommon for a new autopistol to need some shooting to smooth up its operation, though a bit unusual for an STI."

Happily, I have not experienced any failures to feed (or any other glitch for that matter) in my early-issue R9.  However, if even a vaunted STI 1911 .45 may occasionally "need some shooting to smooth up its operation," it seems logical to assume that the same would apply to a semi-automatic as small and powerful and precisely machined as the R9.  

I concur..

Even a 1K gun can malfunction..
Probably should not-but I know that the "high" end 1911s are famous for this -close tolerances,finicky with mags..

I have for one NOT had any problems as yet with either a Farmingdale or a Deer Park "model" pup..

There are quite a few of these positive notes that have been noted here,but the negatives do get the most "action"..

I understand that problems will occur with anything new,the pup included..But let us not forget the positive reviews that are an everyday (since the start) thing..