Paid 3.69/gal...gave me some ideas

[Aglifter]

Sorry I had to post a link, I couldn't fit it all here.  I could really use a better writer than I to rework it.
http://homepage.mac.com/aglifter/Personal2.html

[R9SCarry]

Interesting!!  I like your thinking

I do wonder tho, like with so many ''alternative fuels'' whether there is even now enough stimulus to promote serious production.

We always seem to be laggng way behind the need - almost as if a total crisis situation is needed to kick things into gear properly - and then of course it is not soon enough.

I have long been very interested in hydrogen as the ''ultimate'' fuel but seems still even now, storage is a problem, as hydrides don't seem to have come far - then of course production - no point in using fossil fuels to generate electricity to produce H - that would be counter -productive.

Folks may be interested in a newish process to generate H - it is early days but strikes me as having enormous potential.  I built this site for the company - it is very free of frills - just tells you about the process.

Take a peek - http://www.lare.us/

[Aglifter]

Hey, if you're a webmaster, I could use one -- I really do need a site built for the ice cream company -- The energy idea is an interesting one -- the real problem with hydrogen is it's the least energy dense substance in the universe -- it's theoretically possible to try to build ultra-light cars -- carbon fiber crashed in price last year, and if some research on forming parts from Ti using a kind of "super" electro plating pans out, then real gains could be made w/o a loss of strength...frankly so could bucky tubes, but those are all things that will take many years to develop.  
    One of the key tenets of biochemisty was the "nature is perfect" if you think you've out thought God/evolution, then you're wrong, and you need to more fully understand the problem -- if Hydrogen was an efficient energy source, there would be animals using it -- to clarify, hydrogen is used very short term to produce a slightly more stable fuel inside the cell -- but it's really not energy storage, so much as it's "kinda" a current

[R9SCarry]

I'll drop you a PM Ag.

[sslater]

Aglifter & R9Scarry:
I spent my whole career as an engine design engineer.
To me the biggest advantage of buying a car that can run on M85 - we call them 'flex-fuel" vehicles - is you get a very durable fuel system.  The materials in the entire fuel system are significantly upgraded to cope with the alcohol.  
Normal cars must be able to handle only 10% alcohol.
The price you pay for using a large percentage of alcohol in your fuel is much lower fuel economy.  Complete burning of gasoline requires an optimum (stoichimetric) mixture of about 14.8 parts air to 1 part fuel.  Alchohol runs a stoich of about 9:1(ethanol) or 6.4:1(methanol), so you use a lot more of it to get the same power.  As I understand it, M85 fuel is subsidized by the Federal Government to the tune of 51 cents per gallon.  Without that subsidy, nobody would be buying M85.

A few years ago there was a lot of excitement about cultivating a wild plant that grows in the southwest because it's sap is relatively easy to refine into motor fuel.  What ever happened to that?

In the meanwhile, we can all do a few simple things to improve our fuel economy:
1. Check /adjust tire pressure at least once a week.  Run the maximum recommended pressure in your owners manual.  Something like 60% of all vehicles on the road are running at least one tire seriously low.  (That's a tire killer, too.)
2. Make sure your engine air filter is clean.
3. Take the junk out of your trunk!  Rule of thumb is 275 pounds costs 1/2 mile per gallon.  Most don't carry that much junk, but 65 pounds will lower your 0-60 time by 0.1 seconds.
4. Go easier on the quick starts.
Even a lead foot like me can easily get a couple miles per gallon better fuel mileage without destroying our quality of life on the road.....

[Aglifter]

My guess is on the sap that it was too inefficient to be produced profitably -- also, could have been difficult to cultivate -- most current crops have been developed by man for the last ~7k years or so.  I think a great deal of the cost of E85 (I'm confused, I've been heard it referred to as E85, and you talked about M85 -- we're both talking about 85% ethanol, right?) relative to gasoline is that at current prices, ethanol is quite a bit cheaper than gasoline -- admittedly it is considerably less energy dense -- I'm trying to find the study on using woody plants -- saw it referred to in Sept.'s Scientific American, but can't find a reference for it -- it referred to a method of using woody plants -- presumably an engineered yeast/bacteria -- which required much lower energy input than fermenting grains.  
    As far as a product which can easily be turned into fuel, that's pretty much biodiesel -- check out that journeytoforever.org --- several guys there have started making their own to use -- there's only one reaction, and then a wash, which allows you to recover the catalyst, to go from vegetable oil to diesel.

[Richard S]

I'm about ready to get back to these:

[size=10]Photo courtesy of iBAND.com[/size]

 

[sslater]

Aglifter,
Sorry for the loose terminology.  The "E" stands for ethanol, and "M" stands for methanol.  Ethanol is made from biomass - corn usually.  Methanol is made from........petroleum.

That article on the gasoline plant was in Popular Science or Mechanix Illustrated.  Figures.  If their predictions came true, we'd be flying around like the Jetsons.
I was surprised when I consulted my Bosch's Automotive Handbook that ethanol's stoich point is 9:1, while methanol is all the way down there at 6.4:1.  That's a big difference.  Indy cars run, or used to run methanol.
Alchohol fuels have a higher octane rating so you can get part of the fuel economy loss back by running a higher compression ratio.  But gas engines already run high compression ratios, so you're already in the "law of diminishing returns" range.

Enough of the technical stuff.  Reminds me of work!  Just keep them tires pumped up!!

[Michigunner]

Chris, you did a fine job preparing that web site.

Way to go!

Bill

[sslater]

Richard S,
Do those horse creatures come with heaters for us Northerner types?  

[Richard S]

sslater:

No, but this may be an option:

http://www.statelinetack.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441805176&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302029085&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302024176&bmUID=1128725642717

 :-/

[R9SCarry]

Bill - thx for the site compliment.  It was purposely kept very frill-free and plain.  

Longest job was making the ''molecular'' flash animation plus as always happens - a long run of edits to satisfy the ''can we just change this again'' syndrome!

[sslater]

Richard S,
Selfish bugger that I am, I was thinking of a heater for ME!
Do you think State Line Tack will make one in 46 Regular?

The wife & I spent a week in PA Dutch country this summer.  The buggies didn't look too cozy.  Some of them did have battery-powered running / brake lights.

[Richard S]

sslater:

Good point.  This looks promising:

http://www.kreamersports.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cart=12216&cat=1&PHPSESSID=d0f7faeab481eae463d9aed40ae9d5e0