Ken, you are absolutely correct. Yes I am looking for a pre R unless there is something else out there that is special for some reason, dedicated serial no. or the likes. And no I have not fired the Robar. I tend to fire what I carry, and that is a combingation of a 2tone stainless R9 that I will be sending to Mr. Cogan, a Seecamp, and a PPS, and mostly for home security a Kimber 45 and a 12ga. Moss