New R9 Problem

[Jack_F]

Am I correct?

Did you read the gunbroker link?   If you did you know as much as I do............If you ship the wrong way it could be a felony... .....and you would lose your carry permit in our state(Ohio)
The most important thing to know is that you must only ship guns to a licensed dealer. If the buyer is not a licensed dealer, he will have to make arrangements to ship the item to a dealer in his state.

 Before you ship a gun, the buyer must fax or mail you a copy of the dealer's signed FFL license. You can only ship the gun to the address on the license. You must inform the carrier that the package contains a firearm. Of course, the firearm cannot be shipped loaded; ammunition may not be shipped in the same box. You should take the copy of the signed FFL with you when you take the item to be shipped in case the shipper wishes to see it.

[Z]

Thanks Z.  I sent it back today....was afraid to try sending even a disassembled weapon through the USPO (since it is technically illegal).  Boxed it as required in Maria's email, shipped UPS.  She said ship overnight, but with insurance that would have cost me about $125 (!) so I shipped it routine ground for about $36 insured (for $1800 as a Covert).  I did include a letter as requested detailing the problem, but took the liberty of adding some suggestions re: customer service, shipping, etc.  I do think with the small 9's from Kimber, Sig, Boberg and others Karl is going to run into a lot of competition that he has never had before.  Some follow up as to what was done to repair the pistol and some help with shipping would be appreciated by the apparently many new/old owners who seem to be having problems, some of whom have now left us (or are in process of doing so).  Heck, I even had a cheap little Keltec PF9 that wouldn't feed.  Keltec sent me a shipping label and returned the pistol with an explanation.  I sold it anyway due to the trigger pull, but it worked fine when returned.  The R9 is the most comfortable carry of all of my handguns, so I do hope when it comes back it can be rehabilitated...the point I made in my letter was simply that without an explanation of what was wrong and why it won't happen again, I won't be able to trust it for carry.  Since it is not a plinking pistol and since I don't keep safe queens, I would have to sell it and move on.  Makes me sad 'cause I have been a true fan and an advocate to others.

Backup

I am sure Rohrbaugh will correct the problem for you.
I usually ship the guns UPS Next Day Saver. I know the added insurance can be costly. This is much less than UPS Next Day Air.
Let us know how you make out with the repair.

[MRC]

Please correct me if I am mistaken but I am under the impression that if an owner ships a handgun to the factory or a repair facility it must be shipped next day air by UPS or FEDEX, for example. There are ways to skirt around this through the USPS but not all legal unless shipped FFL to FFL. Have the rules changed?

Here is my understanding on shipping firearms by non-FFL holders.

It is against the law, I am told, to ship by USPS mail.  Do not do it.

It is "The Policy" of UPS and other private carriers to accept only 'Next Day' shipments.  This policy went into effect because of the large number of "lost claims".   These claims came about by the large number of thefts by their employees I was told by a friend who works for UPS.  It would be hard for them to catch you breaking this policy and I don't know what the penaly would be.

Is it worth saving 50 bucks?  I do not know.

[backupr9]

Actually it saved me about $90 and the item is insured for $1800.  If someone wants to steal a bunch of parts to a gun that can't be trusted to fire, go for it!  Next time, I'm going to talk to my gun dealer about shipping for me and see what it would cost. 

[MRC]

I use my FFL when I ship a gun.  I pack the gun myself, he fills out the paperwork (it takes him 5 to 10 minutes), And then I take it to the post office and pay the bill.  He charges me $10.00 but I normally give him $20.

I sent a Restricted Set of Seecamps to Long Island and insured them for $2500.00 for $36.00.

[tracker]

A knowledgeable source just told me that there is a recent heightened awareness among the common carriers, USPS, and the BATF that is putting some teeth into illegal handgun shipping. It just isn't worth a few dollars to lose your gun, CHL/CCW, and the risk of a felony charge.

[backupr9]

It is not illegal to ship via UPS without overnight air....they just don't like it because of increased theft.  Maria at Rohrbaugh was kind enough to send me confirmation via email today of the arrival there of my R9...hoping now to be able to trust it for carry on return, but will have to put at least 100 rounds through it first.

[tracker]

I certainly did not intend to imply you did anything illegal; just a precautionary note in general from my gunsmith who ships and receives handguns on a daily basis. Also, my local UPS center will not accept a handgun shipped via ground, even though it may just be their policy.

[backupr9]

That's why the pistol is disassembled and sent as "machine parts".  UPS knows quite well what that means as do the shippers.  They probably like the business.  The best deal is to ship via your FFl according to MRC, and that certainly makes sense to me.  I wonder how MRC could take it to the post office to ship even with the FFL if it is illegal to ship a handgun via USPO?  Someone educate me (all of the guns I have seen shipped were UPS, and I can't believe they are shipped overnight air for $90 or thereabouts).  Anyway Maria got the gun and "hope is in the air!"

[tracker]

This sounds like a subject best left alone rather than to explain how to game the system on this forum. Be careful out there.

[MRC]

That's why the pistol is disassembled and sent as "machine parts".  UPS knows quite well what that means as do the shippers.  They probably like the business.  The best deal is to ship via your FFl according to MRC, and that certainly makes sense to me.  I wonder how MRC could take it to the post office to ship even with the FFL if it is illegal to ship a handgun via USPO?  Someone educate me (all of the guns I have seen shipped were UPS, and I can't believe they are shipped overnight air for $90 or thereabouts).  Anyway Maria got the gun and "hope is in the air!"

When I take the packaged firearm to the Post Office I am doing it as an agent of the FFL holder.  I am just trying to save him the time and hassle.

[backupr9]

When I take the packaged firearm to the Post Office I am doing it as an agent of the FFL holder.  I am just trying to save him the time and hassle.
[/quote]

That was my question:  How can an FFL holder ship a handgun via USPO if it is illegal to do so?  Is there a special exclusion for FFL holders?  My FFL receives and sends via UPS as far as I know, but I will ask to be sure when next I see him.

[MRC]

backupr9 asked
That was my question:  How can an FFL holder ship a handgun via USPO if it is illegal to do so?  Is there a special exclusion for FFL holders?  My FFL receives and sends via UPS as far as I know, but I will ask to be sure when next I see him.



FFL holders are allowed to ship handguns via USPS.  Non licensed gun owners are not.  There is a specific set of papers that the dealer fills out so when you hand it to the Postal Clerk they know it is a handgun and they then fill out their paper work.

I have a USPS receipt I found in a drawer from when I sent my Seecamp to Gouse for engraving.  Postage and insurance for $900.00 cost me $16.95.

I think that most dealers use UPS or FED EX because the service is better.  It can transact right in your store.  My dealer always runs his own packages to the PO i know.  Just my guess.

[yankee2500]

backupr9 asked
That was my question:  How can an FFL holder ship a handgun via USPO if it is illegal to do so?  Is there a special exclusion for FFL holders?  My FFL receives and sends via UPS as far as I know, but I will ask to be sure when next I see him.



FFL holders are allowed to ship handguns via USPS.  Non licensed gun owners are not.  There is a specific set of papers that the dealer fills out so when you hand it to the Postal Clerk they know it is a handgun and they then fill out their paper work.

I have a USPS receipt I found in a drawer from when I sent my Seecamp to Gouse for engraving.  Postage and insurance for $900.00 cost me $16.95.

I think that most dealers use UPS or FED EX because the service is better.  It can transact right in your store.  My dealer always runs his own packages to the PO i know.  Just my guess.

Correct.


When I want a gun shipped USPS I print my USPS shipping label from my online account and take the package to my FFL and let him ship it, just need to add the transfer fee.

I think the overnight UPS and Fed-Ex rule is just another way to get into your wallet, anyone working there that is inclined to steal doesn't need a week to do it and now they know that most pistol size boxes being shipped overnight are indeed pistols.