Author Topic: Rohrbaugh R9 One Shot Stops = 72%.  (Read 12340 times)

Offline sslater

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Re: Rohrbaugh R9 One Shot Stops = 72%.
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2005, 10:09:00 PM »
Outlawyer has a good point.  My CCW instructor is a former Michigan policeman.  He stressed that the use of deadly force, when justified (very narrow circumstances in MI), is to STOP THE THREAT, not necessarily to kill.
My instructor also warned us that you can expect to be the target of a civil suit even if law enforcement & criminal courts find your shooting incident was justified.
Bottom line:
1. Have the phone number of a good lawyer in your wallet.
2. Expect to spend $10,000 to $100,000 to clear your name.

Offline gr8guns

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Re: Rohrbaugh R9 One Shot Stops = 72%.
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2005, 01:47:55 AM »
Dead, or lose $100,000?   Ahhh... It's great to be alive.  

Some say if you are threatened enough to shoot at all, shoot a zipper.  While you're assessing the effects of your first shot, you could wind up dead by a bad guy that did not stop shooting.

No, you never shot the threatening bad guy by accident, mistake, or a nervous reflexive squeeze on the trigger. Any of those = manslaughter, and everything you own goes to pay the civil liability.

Do not express doubt that this was an intentional shooting to protect your life.  Some say memorize this: "Officer, I shot to stop the threat.  I want a lawyer, now."
« Last Edit: July 30, 2005, 04:35:20 PM by gr8guns »

Offline PsychoSword

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Re: Rohrbaugh R9 One Shot Stops = 72%.
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2005, 03:21:58 AM »
The fact that .357 has a better one shot stop rating than .41 or .44 magnum negates the reliability of these statistics to me.

Offline jarcher

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Re: Rohrbaugh R9 One Shot Stops = 72%.
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2005, 04:40:18 AM »
I have to admit I am more than a bit skeptical about this 72% stat, primarely because one of the premises it is based on is that there is any validity at all to Evan Marshal's data and conclusions.

People shot on the street are shot under a wide variety of circumstances.  Everything varies one shooting to the next.  What kind of gun?  What stock of ammo?  Who was wearing what?  What was the tempature?  How long was the barrel of the gun?  And on and on...  So it's okay to relate stories about shootings and to study them, but to then decide which bullets are more effective than others, in relation to each other, is not possible under uncontrolled conditions.

The way to select a round to put into your pistol is to see how well the ammo tested under tightly controlled lab conditions.  This is the only way a rounds performance can be properly evaluated and compared to others.  Look for penetration (14in), weight retention (as close to 100% as possible) and reliability of expansion.  Make sure the ammo works in your pistol and you have made a good choice.  Also, you might decide if you need barrier penetration or not (you do - always).

And then there is this "shot placement" thing.  In a stres fire situation, you're not going to decide where exactly to hit your "target."  Your life is being threatened by someone using lethal force against you and you have less than 2 seconds to react.  Shot placement means hitting him at all.  You're not going to aim for his heart or head, especially if he is moving, and hit it.  If you do, it was luck.  

The vast majority of people who are shot are incapacitated by blood loss resulting from being shot.  This takes time.  Notice I didn't say "stopped."  Many people who are shot "stop" because they were shot, not because the can't physically continue a bit longer.  Yes, sometimes there is a central nervous system hit, but that's rare.  

So just pick the best round that is reliable in your pistol, practice with what you carry and, most of all, pray you never have a chance to find out how well you chose.

Offline EdMan

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Re: Rohrbaugh R9 One Shot Stops = 72%.
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2005, 12:58:15 PM »
Outlawyr,
You give some very good advice. We may survive the gun battle, but many times the harder battle is afterward in court. My two brothers who were both involved in a self defense bar shooting (in my home town of Detroit), both went to jail. There were some extenuating circumtances, but the main thing is that they were both still alive after the battle.

Ed
« Last Edit: November 05, 2005, 01:48:10 PM by ed5380 »

Offline EdMan

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Re: Rohrbaugh R9 One Shot Stops = 72%.
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2005, 01:39:49 PM »
By the way one of my brothers had a .22 pistol. One shot to the chest of the big drunken "Good ol' Boy" holding him from behind put him down, but didn't kill him. This allowed that brother to go to the aid of my other brother, who weighs about 120 lbs. and had a 300 lb drunken "Good ol' Boy" sitting on his chest, beating his head in with a pool ball. The 300 lb. "Good ol' Boy" took four .22 rounds. The only reason he stopped beating my other brother is that one of the .22 rounds broke his right arm. He was ready to start beating my brother with the other hand when my second brother came to and was able to draw his .38 2" barrel revolver. He fired one .38 Super Vel HP point blank into the "Good ol' Boy's" chest. This finally ended the one sided fight.

For you Michigan readers, or anyone else interested, this happened in the early 1970s at the Leaky Tap Saloon, on Conant at Davison in Detroit. It was right across the street from the Davison Police station. Police response time after the first call, when the fight first started, was 45 minutes! So much for the anti-gun crowd's arguement of "...you don't need guns...you have the police to protect you."
« Last Edit: November 05, 2005, 01:45:32 PM by ed5380 »

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: Rohrbaugh R9 One Shot Stops = 72%.
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2005, 01:59:31 PM »
Quote
[size=13] It was right across the street from the Davison Police station. Police response time after the first call, when the fight first started, was 45 minutes![/size]

AMAZING!!!
Chris - R9S
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
R9 FAQ Site
NRA Life member and Certified Instructor.

Offline Michigunner

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Re: Rohrbaugh R9 One Shot Stops = 72%.
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2005, 02:21:07 PM »
I pretty much recognize that the police will not be able to respond in time, whenever you are in immediate danger.  That's certainly a good justification for concealed pistol licensing.

I have the highest respect for law enforcement, but there are not enough officers to ensure complete and immediate coverage.

I'm sure glad your brothers were able to survive this incident.  Here's hoping the time will come when we will not be sued for protecting ourselves.

Bill

Offline sslater

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Re: Rohrbaugh R9 One Shot Stops = 72%.
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2005, 02:23:57 PM »
Quote

AMAZING!!!

That is amazing.  Detroit's gone downhill since the '70's. If it happened today, the police wouldn't show up at all. >:(

Offline ACP

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Re: Rohrbaugh R9 One Shot Stops = 72%.
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2005, 05:44:57 PM »
Everyone,
The Second Amendment was ratified in 1791, 16 years AFTER the formation of the Marine Corps on November 10, 1775. The Second Amendment is not about arming our military.
Rather, the Second Amendment is about the importance that our government fears its people rather than the people fear their government.
How can one man with a gun make a difference? On September 10, 2001, everyone felt the same way about box cutters.
Those who turn their guns into plowshares end up plowing for those that do not - Thomas Jefferson