The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: MRC on December 13, 2011, 03:18:01 PM
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In the February/March issue of Handguns (Guns and Ammo) magazine Dick Metcalf has an interesting article on Hornady's new Law Enforcement ammunition. This ammo passes all five of the FBI's barrier tests with over 12" of penetration.
The Critical Duty ammo utilizes a "Flexlock Bullet" which is something completely new. The old Critical Defense Bullet looked like an XTP bullet with red silicone calk in the cavity to me. This looks very interesting and I am anxious to try some. Here is Hornady's video:
http://www.hornady.com/store/Critical-DUTY-New
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I read that article and noticed that primers weren't mentioned. Maybe they have it right on this one but they lost me before with their denial of an issue and lack of response.
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I would probably feel the same way tracker if I would have had your problems.
I have been carrying the Critical Defense in my Solo and my Kahr P380. I have 4 what are considered "Micro Nines" and have tried 3 lots of the CD ammo in all 4 with no problems as far as feeding. firing, or accuracy. That said I get "fried egg primers" with the R9 every time and Zero problems with the other 3. I am covinced now that it is a Rohrbaugh problem and not Hornady with the current Winchester primers they are using.
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I'm with Tracker on this, they got me once, but never again. Hose me once... your fault, hose me twice... mine. Gene
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From the information on their site, it sounds very promising. I have never had any issues running their rounds through mySig, Glock, or HK but they will not extract properly from my R9. All the rounds I've tried always went bang but the extractor kept slipping off. To make things easier, I've switched all my carry & HD ammo to Gold Dots since they will work in all my pistols. I'll still probably buy a box or two of these to try them out.
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How does anyone know the primer brand they are using? Their Chief Ballistician told me two years ago that they would use any available primer that was in "saami spec." Maybe the primer availability supply has loosened up for now but if it tightens they will revert to their old ways. I prefer to buy ammo from a manufacturer that makes their own primers that will perform in the R9. Once burned, twice shy.
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Dave Emary at Hornady told me that they are now using a Winchester primer in all of their Critical Defense ammo with a 'Special Order' cup material which is softer than Winchester's normal primer.
I do know how you feel though tracker. The first R9 I bought would not function with any ammo but Baser Aluminum. After many conversations with Maria and about $200 worth of different premium ammunition brands, we were still trying to figure out what I was doing wrong because they do not have any troubles. I had to lose my temper to get them to move.
My present R9 has never had a failure of any kind with over 200 rounds fired with six different brands of ammo, so I am pleased with it.
But I still haven't got over the way I was treated by Rohrbaugh, as you can tell.
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I wonder if Dave Emary would replace my 25 boxes of CD that are in "saami spec" for the new special order primers. It seems that denial and self justification are the common link here. Acccording to Dave there never was a problem with his Ferrari ammo wearing bicycle tires for primers. However, now they have addressed the issue without admitting it. What a company! Joyce Hornady would roll over in his grave.
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This is my post from (http://www.defensivecarry.com)
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-ammunition-ballistics/93690-hornady-critical-defense-ammo-2.html
http://tjofsugarland.blogspot.com/
Post is dead on, (click above link) I would not trust any Critical Defense ammo. I have had multiple FTF (fire) on 4 different guns (LCP, R9s P380 and 92FS), 2 different calibers (.380 and 9mm) 4 different hand gun manufactures to date.
I spoke with Ruger weeks ago about this after I sent in my LCP because the only ammo it would not fire is CD, and they stated that they have been getting many calls about this exact ammo issue. My LCP, P380 and R9s only have issues with CD ammo. Multiple posts on the LCP, Rohrbaugh and other forums have many people stating the exact same FTF issue. I suspect it is because they are using S&B primers they are definitely dancing around the issue of anything wrong on their end. I wont trust any CD ammo in any of my guns because of this. Below are photos 9mm and .380 illustrating FTF (fire) that have happened to me at the range.
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd171/chihuahuatn/Guns/FTFDPX.jpg)(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd171/chihuahuatn/Guns/CD9mm.jpg)
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Chi...can't spell the rest, thanks for the information and the photos....that speaks loudly. Danged if I'll load any CD in something I may have to rely on for my my life. Excellent information.
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I have a few boxes of CD ammo but stopped carrying it after the problems first started, I stick with Gold Dots & Winchester Ranger LE ammo now. Maybe time to trade off the Critical Defense ammo.
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Additionally
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/103509-do-these-primers-look-like-they-should-have-gone-bang-response-hornady-added-3.html
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?topic=4905.0
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?p=2386955
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Without a doubt they had problems a couple of years ago. I had no experience with it then so I am coming into this with an open mind. I was not very experienced with their ammunition, but have used their reloading components for 25+ years with much success. The stuff they are putting out now with the Winchester primers works for me and that is all I know.
One thing I do know is that with the quantity of extremely light weight and cheaply made pocket pistols with "hammer- fired DAO" actions coming on the market, I am surprised there are not more problems.
All I can say is, "Use what you feel comfortable with".
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Without a doubt they had problems a couple of years ago. I had no experience with it then so I am coming into this with an open mind. I was not very experienced with their ammunition, but have used their reloading components for 25+ years with much success. The stuff they are putting out now with the Winchester primers works for me and that is all I know.
One thing I do know is that with the quantity of extremely light weight and cheaply made pocket pistols with "hammer- fired DAO" actions coming on the market, I am surprised there are not more problems.
All I can say is, "Use what you feel comfortable with".
I agree that you need to use what your comfortable with. For me it goes a little farther, when there is overwhelming evidence of issues encountered by many shooters using a broad rage of guns I choose to use something with a better track record. I don't want to find out personally about the issue in a time of real need.
There are too many other equally good or better carry ammo choices available to take a chance on ammo with documented problems. (at least for me)
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I'm with the comfort factor; still holding a box of the CD from a few years ago. Serial no. of box was not one that was mentioned; however, I'll continue to hold.
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Yankee - I certainly respect your opinion and what your "comfort level" is.
I have seen no reports of failures newer than about 2 years old. I have talked to Dave Emary at Hornady and I am confident in the Winchester primers that they are using now. I shoot the pistols I carry at least twice a month with the carry ammo. I test every new box before I will carry it. I am just as confident in the CD's as the Gold Dots I was carrying. I could not be more confident as I have tested this ammo more than any other I have ever used.
Kj - Run that old ammo through your Glock and be done with it.
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Yep. MRC. I could do that with the Glock. Will just continue to hold for now.
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Ok, I'm late to this party; but, was this just specific to Critical Defense and not XTP or TAP? Want to know for safety info. Not interested in Hornady ammo anymore...too many issues as of late.
I have to say, when I saw Critical Defense I flinched and thought to myself "they've changed directions." Now that they have "ZOMBIE" ammo I'm pretty much not interested in anything Hornady is selling (maybe their press, but that's about it). When they start using video games as their inspiration, they've become a "gimmick" company.
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It should work well in the G-17. That is where my present stock of CD Hornady is going as range fodder.
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Whatever you use, even the Gold Dots, for carry ammo, shoot 2 mags from the carry weapon...if they all work, use the rest for carry. Even within one make/type ammo can vary from box to box.
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It should work well in the G-17. That is where my present stock of CD Hornady is going as range fodder.
That's what I'm going to do with mine, as well. :)