The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: yankee2500 on April 29, 2011, 01:30:06 AM
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The most important thing is no one was hurt and the wall can be patched.
I would definitely go someplace safe and try dropping the slide a few times to make sure it's not going to happen again.
That would be a real attention getter. :o
Glad your OK and no one was hurt.
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OMG--First time I've ever heard of this.
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WOW!
Thanks for sharing.
If it was my gun, no two ways about, it would not go back in my pocket untit it got the badge of approval from R or R.
And then, I would want a detailed report.
Good luck, I hope you get the answer you need.
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I agree with Reinz. I would send it back before carrying it again.
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I keep going over it in my mind, thinking maybe there was some way the trigger got depressed. I'd almost prefer it--negligence sucks, but it's fixable. As it is, I'm left with no explanation and a gun I've carried for years but no longer trust. But every time I replay it in my head... there's just no way. Something's wrong with my gun, and I need to figure out what. I'm gonna call Rohrbaugh and Robar tomorrow.
Sure wishing you the best. Glad you're safe; Rohrbaugh and Robar will take care of the problem, however, I know these words aren't sufficient.
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nase:
First of all, slam fires can be a real nightmare if one does not keep the gun pointed in a safe direction when the round is being chambered. You are to be commended for having done so.
My long-distance diagnosis would be that something was fouling the firing pin chamber causing the pin to protrude a bit. Also, a high primer can contribute to the possibility of a slam fire, although the "usual suspect," I would think, is a fouled pin chamber. Another problem is that the slide apparently failed to go properly into battery. That could be due to a number of reasons requiring a proper diagnosis. It could, however, have been due to a protruding firing pin which did not strike the primer with enough force until the slide was pushed into battery.
Your post serves to remind us once again that the unexpected should always be expected when loading our firearms and of the importance of adherence to Colonel Cooper's Rules.
Again, I commend you on your obviously careful gun handling. As it is, a little spackle and some paint should repair the wall. Otherwise, things could have been tragic.
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nase,
Please keep us posted on this. I'm very interested (as are all, I suspect) in hearing what Rohrbaugh says about your experience...
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I agree with Richard about the firing pin being stuck in the "fire" position. I shoot auto mags and have heard of it happening and it scares the hell out of me.
My first R9 had some "fried egg" primers on Hornady ammo and it appeared parts of the primer were going back into the firing pin cavity. This also happened several times with a Colt pocket nine I have. To me, it seems the pressure levels spiked higher in these two firearms than in others.
Has anyone else noticed this happening?
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The firing pin is easily removed, inspected, cleaned, lubricated and reinstalled.
Should take about 5 minutes. You may want to give it try?
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I am sure they will get it taken care of for you. They offer top notch customer service! :)
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Scary situation - a very good illustration of why caution is necessary whenever handling any firearm. Keep that barrel downrange so no one gets hurt in a situation like this.
Reading the thoughts about a firing pin hanging forward echos my thoughts as well. This could not only cause the slam fire, but could explain why the slide didn't go fully into battery when you chambered the round - the cartridge must slide up the face of the slide as the round chambers and a protruding firing pin could have prevented that - as well as touching off the primer when it finally went into battery.
Rohrbaugh CS is second to none and they will get this fixed for you. Good luck and stay safe.
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Man... something just occurred to me. What if it actually *had* gone into battery without me tapping on the back of the slide. If the firing pin is protruding and it does that, it's a recipe for uncontrolled full-auto fire. With a reasonably powerful cartridge, in a tiny gun that I'm not really holding onto very tight.
I think I got pretty lucky that my hand was back there behind the slide to stop it from cycling (it actually trapped the spent brass inside the chamber). As cut up as my palm got from the slide slamming into it, it's a lot better than the potential of full-auto.
Good Lord. Someone was watching out for me last night, and I didn't even think about this aspect of it until right now.
nase:
That nightmare scenario you describe could possibly have happened, but I would think the firing pin would have had to be essentially "welded by fouling" in the exposed position for the force of the initial recoil not to have reseated it back into its channel.
I've been called obsessive-compulsive with regard to the care in handling and attention to detail I give to my firearms, particularly the ones I carry for personal defense. But I've seen what can happen unexpectedly with firearms. As a result, I've adopted a ritual of sorts for loading, unloading, and cleaning a gun.
I never work with a gun if I have had an alcoholic drink or taken medication which might cause drowsiness. Before I pick up a gun or remove it from its holster, I remind myself of Cooper's Rules and take a moment to concentrate on what I am about to do. When I take a semi-automatic pistol to hand, I first remove the magazine, then clear the chamber, and then check the chamber a second time to insure that it is indeed empty. I never attempt to work on a gun while watching television or engaging in conversation. In fact, I prefer not to work on a gun if there is anyone else in the room.
When cleaning a pistol, I use the same routine each time -- following the steps recommended by the manufacturer. And I'm not too proud to have the owner's manual close by for possible reference, no matter how many times I may have read it or cleaned the gun. I examine each part individually, including the firing pin mechanism, and I take my time. When the pistol has been cleaned, lubricated, and reassembled, I check its function using Snap Caps and apply a protective coating of wax to the outer surface.
With regard to the pistol's ammunition, I unload all of the cartridges from the magazine, inspect each one individually for deformation or other defect, and wipe down each one with a silicone cloth. I then carefully reload the cartridges, starting with the one which came from the chamber, and make sure that each cartridge is fully and properly seated in the magazine.
Before I insert the magazine into the well, I retract the slide to insure once again that the chamber is empty and that the firing pin is fully retracted in its chamber. I then insert the magazine into the well and slowly chamber a round while pointing the muzzle in a safe direction. Last, I carefully give the outer surface of the pistol a final light wipe with a silicone cloth, avoiding the trigger, and insert the gun into its holster.
I've been carrying handguns for some fifty years now and (thanks be to a merciful God) have not experienced a mishap or negligent discharge. However, since I constantly remind myself that "Murphy's Law" applies to firearms as well as other aspects of life, I treat a gun with something approaching profound reverence -- even though I carry at least one at all times legally possible every day of the year.
Thank you for posting your experience with the slam fire. It serves as a valuable reminder for us all of the responsibilities we assume by electing to use and carry firearms.
Good luck, and stay safe!
[size=10]Edit: Typo. & 1st para.[/size]
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nase... thank you for posting this....Richard, you put it best...the unexpected should always be expected... I am going to have my son read this post tonight...he is now starting to show an interest in firearms and needs to know unexpected things can happen!
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Richard
Excellent advice. Thanks for posting this, we all need a reminder once in a while.
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This is, one, of the reasons, I think, why people keep trying to tell me not to hit the back of a slide... I do it out of instinct, but I think the right procedure might be to rack the gun instead...
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I use an old desk in the corner of my basement for my gun cleaning area. I also keep some old panels of kevlar from an old vest screwed to the wall in front of me to try to stop any accidental discharges that might occur from going too far. I load and unload facing the panels. At least i wont hit any neighbors.
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Joe_from NY. Welcome to the Forum from NC. Enjoy.
(http://s575.photobucket.com/albums/ss197/kjtrains/trainanimwel.gif)
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nase:
That nightmare scenario you describe could possibly have happened, but I would think the firing pin would have had to be essentially "welded by fouling" in the exposed position for the force of the initial recoil not to have reseated it back into its channel.
I've been called obsessive-compulsive with regard to the care in handling and attention to detail I give to my firearms, particularly the ones I carry for personal defense. But I've seen what can happen unexpectedly with firearms. As a result, I've adopted a ritual of sorts for loading, unloading, and cleaning a gun.
I never work with a gun if I have had an alcoholic drink or taken medication which might cause drowsiness. Before I pick up a gun or remove it from its holster, I remind myself of Cooper's Rules and take a moment to concentrate on what I am about to do. When I take a semi-automatic pistol to hand, I first remove the magazine, then clear the chamber, and then check the chamber a second time to insure that it is indeed empty. I never attempt to work on a gun while watching television or engaging in conversation. In fact, I prefer not to work on a gun if there is anyone else in the room.
When cleaning a pistol, I use the same routine each time -- following the steps recommended by the manufacturer. And I'm not too proud to have the owner's manual close by for possible reference, no matter how many times I may have read it or cleaned the gun. I examine each part individually, including the firing pin mechanism, and I take my time. When the pistol has been cleaned, lubricated, and reassembled, I check its function using Snap Caps and apply a protective coating of wax to the outer surface.
With regard to the pistol's ammunition, I unload all of the cartridges from the magazine, inspect each one individually for deformation or other defect, and wipe down each one with a silicone cloth. I then carefully reload the cartridges, starting with the one which came from the chamber, and make sure that each cartridge is fully and properly seated in the magazine.
Before I insert the magazine into the well, I retract the slide to insure once again that the chamber is empty and that the firing pin is fully retracted in its chamber. I then insert the magazine into the well and slowly chamber a round while pointing the muzzle in a safe direction. Last, I carefully give the outer surface of the pistol a final light wipe with a silicone cloth, avoiding the trigger, and insert the gun into its holster.
I've been carrying handguns for some fifty years now and (thanks be to a merciful God) have not experienced a mishap or negligent discharge. However, since I constantly remind myself that "Murphy's Law" applies to firearms as well as other aspects of life, I treat a gun with something approaching profound reverence -- even though I carry at least one at all times legally possible every day of the year.
Thank you for posting your experience with the slam fire. It serves as a valuable reminder for us all of the responsibilities we assume by electing to use and carry firearms.
Good luck, and stay safe!
[size=10]Edit: Typo. & 1st para.[/size]
Sage advice, indeed. It's all too easy to get complacent when handling firearms. I have been guilty of it myself. Your post has motivated me to revisit my firearm routine and rededicate myself to safety. Thank you for that.
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BTT to ask if there is anymore information about this story...
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Yeah, did you talk to the factory about this experience?
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In the meantime, I've gone over to the dark side and am now carrying an LCP.
Man, at least grab a Kahr P380, not an LCP. The P380 now comes with a black slide, looks real nice. I might sell my two tone one and get the black slide model.
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Man - sounds like the firing pin and firing pin hole have extra tight tolerances if Robar should not have done that area.
If, that is the area.
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Sorry, forgot to come back and post an update until now. I played phone tag with Karl for awhile, but he finally got me on the phone. He said it sounded like Robar had probably coated one or more parts that they shouldn't have, and that was causing the malfunction.
Even though it's almost certainly (in my opinion as well as his) not Rohrbaugh's fault, he told me to send the gun in and he'd swap out any parts necessary to get it running again. I'll toss out another update when I get the gun back and put a few mags through it.
In the meantime, I've gone over to the dark side and am now carrying an LCP.
nase. Now that's great customer service. I'm sure the Robar will be fine.
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The firing pin is easily removed, inspected, cleaned, lubricated and reinstalled.
Should take about 5 minutes. You may want to give it try?
Why would you lubricate your firing pin? Please don't do that. Or the magazines.. I sometimes read people saying they lubricate their magazines and it makes most of us cringe.
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My pup has had the full Robar treatment, slide, frame and internals and there were no problems. I can't say that the NP3 treatment wasn't the problem but this gun was not there first R9
and not there first gun job.
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This is a very important string. As a Certified Pistol Instructor I concur with those who applaud nase's behavior in his having pointed the R9 in a safe manner prior to his slamfire.
Further, Richard's comments about technical issues and never handling a firearm after alcohol consumption are first rate. (I once disqualified a federal officer from the firing range to which I was responsible because he had been drinking. Was he drunk? Certainly not, but alcohol and guns do not mix, period).
I have a Robar R9 and, like Yankee 2500, have never experienced this problem.
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...Rohrbaugh CS is second to none and they will get this fixed for you...
"Second to none" is a pretty strong statement. Will they do warranty repairs on an older gun for the second, third, fourth... owner with no questions asked like Seecamp does? If so, then i would say they are tied for best customer service among gun companies. If they dont, then I would say they are "second to one". Just sayin'...
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I have never owned a Seecamp but their customer service certainly sounds great. No wonder they inspire loyalty to their owners. At least that is my observation.
As to Rohrbaugh, I have never had to return an R9 multiple times but the several times I asked them to intervene in support of various R9s owned, they have never failed me.
Second to none? Don't know, but Rohrbaugh customer service ranks high in my book.
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Please let us know what Karl's diagnosis is on this, thanks. :-/
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I have never owned a Seecamp but their customer service certainly sounds great. No wonder they inspire loyalty to their owners. At least that is my observation.
As to Rohrbaugh, I have never had to return an R9 multiple times but the several times I asked them to intervene in support of various R9s owned, they have never failed me.
Second to none? Don't know, but Rohrbaugh customer service ranks high in my book.
I believe they are great, but just out of curiosity, i would like to see if they would do repairs under warranty for the second or third owner of the gun. Seecamp never quibbles over showing the original bill of sale to prove original ownership. I wonder if Rohrbaugh does. With Seecamp, if they made it, they fix it. I just wondered if Rohrbaugh stood behind their product as well as does Seecamp. The fact that a second or third owner who buys it can get it repaired under the lifetime warranty certainly adds value to the product, from the point of view of both the original owner, and future owners as well.
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I understand what Joe is saying and I agree with him. That is what separates a good company from a great one.
It doesn't matter when it broke, who broke it, or how it broke. It just needs to be corrected, and done right and as quick as possible.
That's what keeps customers coming back for more.
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There is a lot of implicit trust when dealing with Rohrbaugh warranty work. There is no stated policy after the original owner but I know they have taken care of subsequent owner problems: without fail as far as I know. Also, when the gun goes back to Rohrbaugh they fix the issue, and more, to make it right. When the gun is returned to the owner there is no paperwork or explanation of the repair effort other than a KR or ER initial. I have heard that new owners of used R9s have to pay an extended warranty fee but that is just hearsay.
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I sold a Stealth in this forum and detected a problem with the black slide plating before I shipped it to the new owner. I sent it to Rohrbaugh and they replaced the slide. Great job and well handled.
However, if I had not been the original owner I do not think the factory would have treated me the same. This is my perception. Hope I am wrong.
In my experience, (never having owned a Seecamp), Rohrbaugh is the gold standard for customer service.
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However, if I had not been the original owner I do not think the factory would have treated me the same. This is my perception. Hope I am wrong.
Is there anyone on here who needed warranty service and had to prove they are the original owner? If we don't get any answers to this question, i will start a new thread to get more visibility for the question.
In my experience, (never having owned a Seecamp), Rohrbaugh is the gold standard for customer service.
If Rohrbaugh would not honor the warranty for the subsequent owners, and they are the gold standard, then I would have to say that Seecamp is the platinum standard.
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There is a lot of implicit trust when dealing with Rohrbaugh warranty work. There is no stated policy after the original owner but I know they have taken care of subsequent owner problems: without fail as far as I know. Also, when the gun goes back to Rohrbaugh they fix the issue, and more, to make it right.
This is very encouraging to hear. As i said before, their excellent service adds to the value of our guns.
When the gun is returned to the owner there is no paperwork or explanation of the repair effort other than a KR or ER initial. ....
This was my experience with Seecamp also. It must be that they are both small operations with talented craftsmen, and the bottom line is that the gun ends up working as it should. Whatever they had to do to get it there, might be looked at by them as inconsequential.
It is a different story with Kahr, with regard to their informing the owner of the corrective action taken to remedy the issue with the guns sent back. When I had to send them my brand new out of the box P380 due to many FTF's and FTE's, i got the following letter with the gun upon its return:
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/P380ServiceLetterfromfactoryMedium.jpg)
Kahr gave excellent customer service, including fast turn around and free shipping both ways, as they should have, and the gun afterwards performed flawlessly, with over 1000 rounds through it since then without even a single problem. If their 9MM was as small and light as their .380, i would have it and carry it often.
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Joe from NY: You have my statement regarding Rohrbaugh and the facts that tracker have put into play. When I say Rohrbaugh is the gold standard there is an implicit in my experience.
As to Kahr; I wouldn't go near one. I was the first on my block to own one in the mid 90's, had multiple failures and got my money back. I recall it had a great DA trigger. But, with the failures immediately behind its new ownership, I lost confidence in the gun and the company.
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yeah, my Kahr was a dog right out of the box. I couldn't believe that they would let something that unreliable leave the factory. That being said, they were very cooperative in helping me get the thing working right. After the adjustments made during warranty service, the thing is perfect. I could have just returned it to my guy, and gotten another one, but i figured that two times through the factory was better than one, and the personal attention given to a gun going through warranty repair is better than that given to any one of the thousands of guns upon leaving the assembly line.
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As an example of the personal attention at the factory I recently ordered four recoil springs and the packing slip had "ER" hand initialed on it.
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Great example, tracker. I did the same thing, ordered 2 recoil springs and 4 sets of stainless grip screws some time ago just to have on hand and the invoice had each item checked off and also hand initialed "ECR" in two places.
I thought that was great; attention to detail. Still have that invoice.
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Great example, tracker. I did the same thing, ordered 2 recoil springs and 4 sets of stainless grip screws some time ago just to have on hand and the invoice had each item checked off and also hand initialed "ECR" in two places.
I thought that was great; attention to detail. Still have that invoice.
Yes, when the boss gets involved, things get done correctly. I ordered a few springs , a holster, and black magazine from them a few weeks back. They sent me a regular magazine instead. the invoice had initials "DF" on it. I figured they substituted it for the out of stock one i wanted. When i called to inquire if the black magazines were on back-order, they said that they never substitute items for backordered stock, any it must have been a mistake. I sent the regular magazine back to them with a copy of my invoice and they sent me out the proper magazine. The copy of the invoice sent back to me had the initials "ECR" on it in a circle. Maybe the boss should check the outgoing accessories and parts orders from the beginning. Even though I am still out the $2.80 i paid to ship the magazine back, i am glad they had what i wanted in stock and i got it quickly. So far, they are real nice on the phone, and their service to me has been great. I did not try to turn this thread into a Seecamp vs. Rohrbaugh thread, i was just comparing experiences with both companies. They are two examples of excellent firearm manufacturers who have a tight-knit, extremely loyal following, with many owners, including me, owning both guns and being active on both forums.
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They are two examples of excellent firearm manufacturers who have a tight-knit, extremely loyal following, with many owners, including me, owning both guns and being active on both forums.
I agree with the above statement as I have had experience with both in the customer service area; outstanding service from both.
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I have two cents to add: In a packing slip I received from the factory, about 3 years ago, there was a personal message; "Phil - How are things in Vermont?" Eric
I had forgotten this story but it clearly goes to the personal/hands on approach of Rohrbaugh.
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I have owned an R9 for some time, my first one delivered around 2005 or 2006, it is incredible how time flies.
I have owned a Seecamp for about twenty years.
I load most of my semi-autos the same.
I start from an empty pistol and empty magazine.
I place one appropriate caliber round in the magazine, insert the magazine into the firearm, then rack the slide, I let it really slide home to seat the cartridge.Then I will do a press check to ensure the cartridge is indeed loaded into the chamber, I then holster the firearm, remove the magazine. The holstered firearm is safely holstered, trigger protected.
This I do all the time. I have read and heard horror stories how someone loads a firearm and gets distracted by the telephone or a spouse at the other end of the house, the firearm left behind loaded, unprotected from perhaps a young child in the house.
I load the magazine to capacity and insert into the firearm.
I guess if I had a slamfire using my method, and there was a potential of the firearm going full auto, there would only be that one round in the chamber. The possibility of a slam fire is not the reason I load my firearms this way.
This of course does not prevent a slamfire, but that is why as always, keep that muzzle in a safe direction.
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Very safe and deliberate.
Good practices to live and follow.
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Great words, Art. I do much the same way. Thanks for sharing your expertise.
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Did this one ever get a factory diagnosis?
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Good question...Scary situation and one demanding an explanation. Excellent advice from many sage forum members greatly appreciated!