The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: hoserack on July 31, 2011, 05:32:39 PM
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I know everyone raves about Gold Dots on this forum and they are recomended by Rohrbaugh.
I currently carry the GD 115g
I have seen the video on Hornady about thier CD ammo and it looks pretty good.
I know they had a primer problem but I am sure that has been resolved.
What is the thought on this ammo now a days?
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My opinion is to avoid anything Hornady.
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I have always carried the Gold Dots, but why not try a box of the Hornady CD. If they do not work, a guy isn't out that much. I think I will after doing a little research this A.M.
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There was a thread on Hornady Critical Defense ammo about a year ago. Several forum members had failure-to-go-bang issues with certain lots of Hornady C.D.
For what it's worth, I think the biggest attraction of Hornady C.D. is its (relatively) reasonable price compared to other brands of premium ammo. BUT, unlike the other brands of premium ammo - Hornady does NOT make its own primers*, thus they can't control primer quality. Because other members have had issues, I would not carry my R9 with C.D. ammo.
*Remember, there was a really severe primer shortage in 2009 - 2010. For a period of 6 months I could not buy a single primer from anyone! Finally bought 1000 Fiocchi small pistol primers. Imagine what its like for a volume manufacturer who needs to buy in quantities of 100,000 or 200,000 per week!
Steve
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I like the expansion therory with the soft rubber expanding the round.
Also keeping the clothing material out.
It is a great idea imho.
THey expanded well in the video.
I know it is a Hornaday video but I doubt they would rig it.
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The problem with the Hornady in the Rohrbaugh was there was not reliable primer ignition due to hard primers.
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Hornady in my opinion is a very good company and I would think that they probably have gotten that straightened out by now.
CCI and Winchester always had the reputation of having the hardest cup material in there primers and they are the makers of the prefered ammunition for the R9. I really believe that Hornady got ahold of some bad primers at the time of the shortage. Just my opinion.
Why not try a box and find out?
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It wasn't just "getting ahold of bad primers" that turned me off it was the attitude of Hornady after numerous telephone conversations with the production manager. He told me in no uncertain terms that they would buy primers wherever they could find them and they considered this a gun issue not an ammo issue. I don't understand your persistent interest in trying out questionable ammo in the R9 when there are proven flawless products from other manufacturers who make their own primers.
For the record I was one of their biggest fans because of the accuracy and other desirable defense characteristics mentioned here. I am the proud owner of 25 boxes that will be used at the range unless somebody wants to buy them.
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Just stating my opinion. If I got stuck with a bunch of bad product, I would feel exactly like you.
Find someone with a Glock or a Kahr and I bet they go off. That has been my experience with striker fired pistols.
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They will be range fodder for my Glocks.
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It wasn't just "getting ahold of bad primers" that turned me off it was the attitude of Hornady after numerous telephone conversations with the production manager. He told me in no uncertain terms that they would buy primers wherever they could find them and they considered this a gun issue not an ammo issue. I don't understand your persistent interest in trying out questionable ammo in the R9 when there are proven flawless products from other manufacturers who make their own primers.
For the record I was one of their biggest fans because of the accuracy and other desirable defense characteristics mentioned here. I am the proud owner of 25 boxes that will be used at the range unless somebody wants to buy them.
With all due respect, I understand why you don't like the Hornaday, but do you think new CD ammo will,
1. Not function well because of an on going primer issue?
2. Not function as marketed?
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I don't know what the new CD ammo will or won't do because I don't intend to buy and try another Hornady product. As I explained above, it is the culture and character of the organization that was unacceptable. One mea culpa outweighs ten thousand denials; I didn't hear anything but self-justification from them.
Their ads and promises are terrific but why take a chance once you've been burned and received a poor response? Mr. Joyce Hornady, the deceased founder, would not have tolerated such poor quality control but, apparently, Ben Franklin runs the show now.
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hoserack
You got my interest up and I ordered a couple of boxes of the CD's that ship today. I will give a range report soon and if I have time I will get the chronograph out and compare the GD's, Federal, and the CD's.
The CD's are a little tough to find. I got the last two boxes and they had no idea when the next ones come in. I am also going to try the 380 CD's.
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I'm in Tracker's corner on this one.
Attitude is everything when dealing with consumers and in this instance it spoke volumnes.
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hoserack
You got my interest up and I ordered a couple of boxes of the CD's that ship today. I will give a range report soon and if I have time I will get the chronograph out and compare the GD's, Federal, and the CD's.
The CD's are a little tough to find. I got the last two boxes and they had no idea when the next ones come in. I am also going to try the 380 CD's.
I have a couple of boxes of the 380s I would part with, shoot me a PM if your interested. :D
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hoserack
You got my interest up and I ordered a couple of boxes of the CD's that ship today. I will give a range report soon and if I have time I will get the chronograph out and compare the GD's, Federal, and the CD's.
The CD's are a little tough to find. I got the last two boxes and they had no idea when the next ones come in. I am also going to try the 380 CD's.
That would be Awesome MRC, will you post the findings in this thread or start a new one?
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Are you two on the Hornady Advisory Staff?
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Are you two on the Hornady Advisory Staff?
Whoa! ;D
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You never know - we could have a mole. 8)
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Don't think so! ;D But what do I know? ;) I do know, I'm walking into that one! ;D
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Only the Mole knows! ;D
No, really, I don't think Tracker is being accusatory nor am I.
I think he is just asking a question.
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Are you two on the Hornady Advisory Staff?
That's a pretty shitty comment.
I have nothing to do with Hornaday, just curious if ammo works as marketed.
BTW, over 3000 post on a gun site?
Get a life. :P
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hoserack
He's probably right about the CD's. Why would anyone want to try something new and innovative when Silvertips with their bullet design which was out dated 20 years ago are still available.
I still keep my model 10 in the nightstand loaded with dum-dum's too.
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With all due respects to ALL posters, it doesn't appear too innovative if it does not go BANG!
And given the attitude of the company towards it's consumer's, I am just as turnded off by them and their product as they are by the "gun issue".
There is no magic bullet. Most premium performance loads will do the job.
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I bought my PUP back in 08 and have probably put 350 rounds through it.
I love the gun and carry it every day.
I usually shoot WWB target ammo.
I have shot 50 GD 115g through it and half a box of CD FTX 115g.
I have never had a FTF or FTL.
I do know if a person is wearing heavy clothing a hollow point may pass right through without expanding.
The Hornaday product claims it will pass though heavy clothing and not clog and fully expand into a perfect star almost every time.
I like full expansion and energy transfer into Bad guy. 8)
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Good luck.
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Hoserack - good points indeed.
However since I feel that Hornady has burned the R9 community, why would I want to spend close to a buck a round(?) for theirs when the FBI has already proved that the Federal Hydra Shoks Will do as you stated , Plus throw more lead at your target as well, with 147 gr ?
They feed flawless in all three of my R9's.
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Hoserack - good points indeed.
However since I feel that Hornady has burned the R9 community, why would I want to spend close to a buck a round(?) for theirs when the FBI has already proved that the Federal Hydra Shoks Will do as you stated , Plus throw more lead at your target as well, with 147 gr ?
They feed flawless in all three of my R9's.
Do the Federals key hole in the 147g?
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hoserack,
Did the video show you this?
This is why I don't use any Hornady CD in any of my guns...
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd171/chihuahuatn/Guns/CD9mm.jpg)
note the two on the left are from my hi power, the two on the right my R9....
mike
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"I do know if a person is wearing heavy clothing a hollow point may pass right through without expanding."
(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/trigger-happy.gif)I don't worry about heavy clothes because I only make head shots.(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/CHLLOL1.gif)
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hoserack,
Did the video show you this?
This is why I don't use any Hornady CD in any of my guns...
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd171/chihuahuatn/Guns/CD9mm.jpg)
note the two on the left are from my hi power, the two on the right my R9....
mike
When did you purchase these rounds?
Like I said in the opening of this thread, I am aware the rounds had primer issues a couple years back.
Are they using reliable primers currently.
Everyone makes mistakes, has it been corrected.
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Sunday is my birthday, I'll be 45.
I'm going shooting with 4 of my buddies.
I'm bringing my new M1A rifle I put in a EBR Stock, a Glock 27, 23 & my R-9.
I'm going to gander mountain today to buy 2 boxes of CD FTX.
I will shoot 40 rounds and save 10 for carry if they all go bang.
I will let you guys know.
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Great. I am interested to hear how it does.
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Hoserack - Happy (early) Birthday! and have a great party at the range with your buddies.
I sincerely hope the CD's work 100%
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Well the birthday shootout went well.
I had another buddy bring his new R9 to help with the range report.
I had 10 rounds of old CD FTX I bought a couple years ago and 2 new boxes.
My friend shot 18 rounds out of his new R9 and they all went bang. He did have 1 FTL but it did fire once loaded.
My PuP must be a really good build because It never FTF or FTL. I shot the 10 old rounds and 25 more new rounds and all of the CD FTX went bang with no FTL.
I now feel confident that the 7 rounds I saved for carry will fire.
My next question is do they expand the way they claim?
Also, do they expand well with no Clothes on the geletin?
If so, I would think it is a good Self defense carry round.
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Thanks for the report. Did any of the primers in the fired cases show signs of being hard? Were there any "fried egg" looking primers?
I have a Colt Pocket Nine which has problems with certain loads that are fine in other pistols. I have never figured out if it is light hits or pressure problems.
I only received one box of the CD so I don't know if I will get the chrongraph out or not, but I will try to get out this week for accuracy and function tests anyway.
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I have fired the CD 380s and 9mms and never had a problem with a FTF, but after reading about issues others had and the lack of first class customer service I stopped using them.
I have trouble putting my life in the hands of a company that will buy any primer they can get, who knows when they will buy more hard primers. For my piece of mind I'll to stick ammo that hasn't had a primer issue.
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Still have a box; will use them in the Glock. :)
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Since I reload nearly everything that I shoot, I can tell you that we all had to "buy any primer that we could get" from 2008 up until about 8 months ago. I load about everything on a progressive loader so I always stuck with Winchester as they had the hardest cup material. When Winchester small pistol became impossible for me to find, I used whatever was on the shelf. I got ahold of some Remington and the only thing they would work in were the striker-fired Glocks and Kahrs.
Hornady is a good company and I know they will fix the problems when possible.
With today's Global Economy, who know where the other manufacturer's components are coming from.
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I do use Hornady's .300 gr .44 Mag in the Ruger Super Blackhawk and will continue to do so; always performs as it should. I've used this for years and know it's good stuff.
I know Hornady, if not already, will solve this issue.
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Every Company makes mistakes.
I have a small business and we make mistakes.
I and hopefully Hornaday make corrections as soon as they realize there is a problem.
I will for now give them a chance and hopefully no new problems occur.
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I understand about the supply issues and that mistakes can be made and everyone deserves a second chance, just not with my life. There are other choices as good or better from top manufacturers that haven't made a mistake.
I'll stick with the Winchester Ranger LE ammo and Gold Dots which come in boxes of 50 for about the same price as 20 CDs.
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Hoserack - glad to hear that your birthday shootout went well.
As well as the successful test on the CD FTX Ammo.
Thanks for getting back to us with the range report.
Since they all went bang, I don't see why they would not do everything else as advertised.
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hoserack. I, too, am glad your shootout went well with the CD's; forgot to mention that. Thanks for the info.
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Thanks for the report. Did any of the primers in the fired cases show signs of being hard? Were there any "fried egg" looking primers?
I have a Colt Pocket Nine which has problems with certain loads that are fine in other pistols. I have never figured out if it is light hits or pressure problems.
I only received one box of the CD so I don't know if I will get the chrongraph out or not, but I will try to get out this week for accuracy and function tests anyway.
I was going to try to save the brass, but we had 2 new shooters and 1 that never shot a gun before.
So with all that going on and brass every where to begin with I decided to let it go.
Let me know what you find out MRC.
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Thanks on the Birthday congrats BTW. :)
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I was going to try to save the brass, but we had 2 new shooters and 1 that never shot a gun before.
So with all that going on and brass every where to begin with I decided to let it go.
Let me know what you find out MRC.
I don't blame you for letting it lay. Iwill let you know.
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hoserack,
I am happy your experince with Hornaday's CD ammo went well, mine did not. I don't want to come of as hating Hornaday products I just don't trust there CD line. I think its inferior for the amount of money I pay and the primers they use. I trust Hornady 32 acp 60gr. XTP HP ammo in my Seecamp daily and have had zero problems.
Additionally I just saw this on another forum
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460366
All the best with your R9,
Mike
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I finally got to the range yesterday to try the Hornady CD ammo in my R9. All 12 rounds that I fired went off and with reasonable accuracy.
That said there is something wrong as all primers showed some of the "Fried Egg" look. Looks like one of these problems to me:
-Overly soft primers
-High pressure
-Light hits
I will post more under range reports later today or tomorrow when I find time. I also chronographed 4 different ammo types to post.
I guess Tracker owes me an "I told you so".
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Well my hat is off to you MRC.
Someone else lacking of character would not bother to report those facts at all, and for that I for one, Thank you.
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My thanks to you also, MRC. As I have said previously I was one of Hornady CDs biggest early fans but became quite disenchanted with their poor quality control and an attitude of denial. There will be no "I told you so" from me.
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Thanks Tracker, you are a true gentleman.
This primer thing has been bugging me for 10 years with the Pocket Nine and now a similar situation with the Rohrbaugh. Seems only to occur with hammer fired DAO. Maybe light hits is one of the contributing factors. The trigger on my R9 is way too smooth and light for a hammer fired DAO. No failures to fire yet at about 175 rounds though.
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Do the Federals key hole in the 147g?
Hoserack - I am sorry, I did not put you on 'ignore'. I just saw this while going back and looking at the pictures of primers from Chihuahua Tn's post.
To answer your question, I really do not remember 100 % if I put any Hryda Shoks on paper or not. I shoot steel about 100%.
If there is reason to believe so, then I will check it out.
Thanks