The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: Michman82 on April 29, 2011, 12:19:35 PM
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Hi
I am a relatively new pistol user/CCW holder, but old shotgunner. I have been experimenting with various models for CCW with the following impressions (provided as points of reference relative to the R9):
* Kahr PM9 - easy recoil, really don't care for the long and relatively light trigger pull, best 9mm configuration next to R9 for CCW;
* Glock 26 - shoot all day recoil; love the trigger; too big for me to want to carry;
* Seecamp LWS380 - snappy recoil, relatively long but firm trigger that I like, perfect concealability, but not a 9mm;
* Seecamp LWS32 - same as LWS380, only recoil is no issue, perfect CCW for my wife;
* Sig P238 - shoot all day recoil, best trigger on any handgun I have shot; not a Seecamp, but carries well concealed, not a 9mm;
* S&W BG380 - recoil no issue, long, but firm trigger that I like, comfortable concealed carry, not a 9mm;
* Ruger LCP - hate the recoil; long and soft trigger that I don't like, best carry option other than Seecamp in 380, but (again) not a 9mm.
Obviously the R9 has the best configuration for concealability in a 9mm, so my question for this forum is: how does the R9 compare in terms of felt recoil and trigger "feel" relative to other firearm options
that I own?
Thanks.
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Welcome to the Forum! ;)
The R9s recoil is somewhat snappy and the trigger is smoother than the Seecamp. This is just my personal observation, I am sure that other opinions will vary. :)
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Michman82, Welcome to the group.
I agree with dano on the R9 / Seecamp comparison.
I have not shot a Sig or S&W 380 but had the LCP, the trigger on mine wasn't bad but was not an R9.
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Michman82. Welcome to the Forum. The recoil of the R9 is definitely sharper than the Seecamp .380, however, not unmanageable, and agree with dano on the trigger smoothness of the R9. Again welcome.
(http://s575.photobucket.com/albums/ss197/kjtrains/trainanimwel.gif)
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If ur looking for a 9 mm this is a great choice. After a day at the range you will understand the power behind the pup and learn to love the recoil....Its not a gun you take to the range to bang out 50 shots....practice with ten shots of Gold Dots and you'll be street lethal!
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BTW....I also carry a Seecamp .32 and the recoil on the pup is significantly greater....just a matter of getting to know your pup!
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I have the P238 and the BG 380. Of those two I prefer shooting the P238 - very accurate, mine is 100% reliable with any ammo I've tried, and the recoil is very soft for such a small gun. The BG 380 is also nice but doesn't feel as good in my hand as the P238, and I think the recoil is a bit more noticeable.
The R9 is in a different league in most respects. The trigger pull is long but very smooth with no stacking that I can detect. It's much smoother than the BG 380 and "feels" lighter. It's harder to compare to the P238 which is SAO whereas the R9 is DAO. For "target shooting" one might prefer the P238 but neither is really a target or range gun. For SD I prefer the R9 trigger over the others - it's just so smooth.
Did I mention how smooth the R9 trigger pull is?
The gun points better than the other two cited - it just lines up on target like it's an extension of your hand. It "feels" very rounded and smooth which helps with shooting comfort.
There is recoil with an R9 - I find it's snappier with Gold Dots (which are very accurate in it) than with practice ammo (WWB) but as others say it's very manageable. There is more recoil with an R9 than with a BG 380 or P238 - no doubt about it. On the other hand the comfortable ergonomics really mitigate the recoil.
I have to admit that recoil was one big question in my mind before purchase. I found a dealer with the configuration I wanted in stock and was fortunate that the shop manager carries an R9 and lets serious customers test fire it, so I had a chance to fire an R9 before buying one. I walked out of the shop with my own.
The best advice I can give you is that if you have the experience that you do with small firearms, you will have no problems managing the recoil of an R9.
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I have never considered any .380 or .32ACP pistol for personal defensive use in my career and subsequent retirement years. If someone else wishes to do that then I am all for him. I do however, have considerable experience with the Kahr PM9. I found it to be just ahead of a Raven in terms of quality with a barrel quality that I would consider to be just above zero. The accuracy of the ones I have shot and the one I owned was lacking with any ammo I tried. I found the polymer frame to be subject to extremes of temperature. On hot days it would change and on cold days it didn't want to let the magazines drop free. The magazine release is in a position that can't be easily used with the shooting hand. I considered the money spent to be a total waste of money and felt fortunate when a trade presented itself that allowed me to see it leave my abode and pass to other hands.
With the Rohrbaugh the story is a near reversal of the situation with the Kahr. The groups that my Rohrbaugh will shoot could only be shot from a Kahr if the muzzle of the PM9 was held to the target. While I'm not a devotee of the euro type mag release on the R9S, it does work, albeit not fast, but it works. It has been 100% reliable in the short time I've owned it. I do carry it a lot. It is not my first choice for carry as I prefer a .45ACP, Colt Defender. But for some things the Rohrbaugh is the most convenient and obvious choice depending on how I am dressed and the weather. I haven't regretted buying it even though I could own two Kahrs for what a Rohrbaugh costs. As a result of my experience I pruchased a second R9S as a gift for my son. He considers it the best concealed carry pistol he's ever seen or used. His career is as a Special Forces Weapons Sgt and Medic and he has been in combat so he has some knowledge of the subject he is addressing.
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* * * As a result of my experience I pruchased a second R9S as a gift for my son. He considers it the best concealed carry pistol he's ever seen or used. His career is as a Special Forces Weapons Sgt and Medic and he has been in combat so he has some knowledge of the subject he is addressing.
FG:
That is a wonderful gift for your son! And please thank him for his service to our nation.
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flintsghost - Your PM9 must be an old one. The Walther barrels they use now are as good as any I have seen. My Kahr is 100% with any ammo I have tried .
As for accuracy, it is the most accurate small pistol I own. The next most accurate pocket pistol I have is the Kahr P380. I have heard about Kahr's early problems, but my experiences have been nothing but good.
As for barrel quality, my two R9's are at the bottom of my list. You have seen that.
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I find flintghost's opinion of the Kahr entertaining as I had an "early Kahr" and would never buy one again. I also agree that .45ACP is superior to 9MM. In fact, the 9MM is the smallest acceptable cartridge that I will carry. I carry my R9 much and shoot little as recommended by the factory.
As to the R9 felt recoil that is the basis of this thread, I have never owned a Seecamp but did own a NAA .32. I enjoyed its ownership but it was a "Seecamp wannabe". I could never find a Seecamp that was either available or affordable to me at the time.
The R9 changed everything and I have never looked back. I would not buy a .380, period.
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Thanks for all of the responses, even if some didn't really address my two questions. I would like to carry a 9mm and prefer the smallest available. But, not at the expense of thinking about whether I will be accurate enough with it should the need arise to use it because I have had an uncomfortable experience with it in practice. I know that in reading a lot of the handgun blogs that there is an ongoing debate about the minimum caliber considered to be "right" for self-defense, but, I subscribe to the school of thought that a gun in the hand is worth two in the glovebox. And, at 5' 9" and a buck fifty soaking wet, I don't have a lot of leeway in what I can comfortably hide, especially in warmer weather which is where I live almost all the time.
So, one last request for input from anyone who has actually shot the guns I own and described vs the R9 shooting experience.
Thanks.
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Hey Michman82, welcome to the forum.
With the exception of the LWS 380, I own or have shot all those pistols. And let me say, the R9 is no big deal in the recoil dept. The trigger is really smooth and sweet.
It all boils down to this; do you want the best, lightest, smallest 9mm on the planet?
If you do, then the average bear can learn to handle the recoil and trigger in one range session, two at the max.
We're not talking about a 2' 44 mag here. It's just a 9.
I'm 5-10 medium frame with nerve damage in both hands and arms. Both little finger and ring fingers in each hand have the strength of a 5 yr old. If I can handle it, you sure can. Your putting too much in your head.
Just go for it, I promise, you will be so glad you did!
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Welcome!
What Reinz said. 8)
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Thanks for all of the responses, even if some didn't really address my two questions. I would like to carry a 9mm and prefer the smallest available. But, not at the expense of thinking about whether I will be accurate enough with it should the need arise to use it because I have had an uncomfortable experience with it in practice. I know that in reading a lot of the handgun blogs that there is an ongoing debate about the minimum caliber considered to be "right" for self-defense, but, I subscribe to the school of thought that a gun in the hand is worth two in the glovebox. And, at 5' 9" and a buck fifty soaking wet, I don't have a lot of leeway in what I can comfortably hide, especially in warmer weather which is where I live almost all the time.
So, one last request for input from anyone who has actually shot the guns I own and described vs the R9 shooting experience.
Thanks.
What you can hide and how well, largely depends upon how fashionable you are. How you prefer your clothing to fit and the mode of dress. As I got older I began to prefer clothing that was somewhat looser fit than in my younger days of pegged pants legs and tight T shirts. Now at 65 my jeans are loose and I like much looser tops. So I can probably hide a S&W 500 without too much adjustment. I'm 6'2" and 198 lbs, and fairly thin but not cadaverous. But I have always been able to hide a full size Colt Govt .45 in a Jackass rig in business atire and used to carry one in that manner when I was occasionally called on to escort the Lt Gov. Back in those days I was lifting very heavy at the gym and weighed right around 215. But a suit or sport jacket covers a multitude of problems. It also was not paramount that no one know I was armed because of my occupation.
On the other hand, my son is more of a current slave to fashion and he is thin despite being 6'4" and about 215 lbs because of all the physical training he does. Hiding something much more than a S&W 442 or a Rohrbaugh is a chore when you wear fairly tight fitting clothing that is currently the heighth of fashion. His slim IWB holster with his Rohrbaugh R9S is about as good as it gets for him. He and I have discussed that and he is not going to change the way he wears his clothing just to hide a weapon.
One thing that most people don't realize or consider is that people who carry sidearms for a living i.e. FBI, Secret Service, plain clothes police usually have their clothing tailored specifically to hide their weapon. Once one decides what that or those are going to be, if it is really important to you, one might consider that option.
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To add : I am not a macho guy either, nor am I try to prove so. I am 56 and overweight like most of us this age. I left that macho stuff way behind. I also, have carpel tunnel in both hands as well as the nerve damage, so again, if I can manage the recoil with nothing to prove, I'm confident you can too.
Good Luck
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yeah, today i just got back from the range where i finally shot my new R9, as well as my Seecamp 380. The Seecamp is brutal and after about three magazines. you just want to put it back in your pocket and not see it the rest of the time. The R9 was a bit jumpy, but after a couple of shots, you get used to it. You could shoot it all day. Just keep checking those damn VZ grip screws. It seems after every magazine, i had to tighten them.
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yeah, today i just got back from the range where i finally shot my new R9, as well as my Seecamp 380. The Seecamp is brutal and after about three magazines. you just want to put it back in your pocket and not see it the rest of the time. The R9 was a bit jumpy, but after a couple of shots, you get used to it. You could shoot it all day. Just keep checking those damn VZ grip screws. It seems after every magazine, i had to tighten them.
Joe:
Here is a link to a post regarding my solution to the "loose screw" problem:
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=Water;action=display;num=1302489711;start=9#9
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Again, thanks to all for taking the time to respond, especially Joe_From_NY. I had the same experience with my Seecamp 380, which is why I really needed the comparison with the R9. I am convinced and will be going to my 2nd favorite auction site (GB) to secure an R9s.
I really appreciate the hospitality of this forum and the helpful input.
Kind regards.
John
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The LCP is not anywhere as snappy as the R9. Took my New Today R9 to the range today for the first time. I can see that the R9 is not going to be a pistol to take to the range for a day of leasurely plinking ;) ;) But like they say, that is not what it is built for. I will shoot it enough to maintain proficiiency, and practice with something a little more tame.
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MOLSON. Glad you got to the range with your new R9. One has to decide how often they want or need to shoot it. I'm used to shooting .454's and the .44 mag not to mention the .500 mag S&W, so the R9 is quite tame compared to these. Do enjoy.
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WHAT IS THE EXPERIENCE WITH THE WILSON CUSTOMIZED R-9 ?
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cuttime, First welcome to the group.
Why are you hollering, no one is deaf just a little hard of hearing. Turn off the caps.
I have no experience with the Wilson Custom but I'm sure someone who does will chime in.
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WHAT IS THE EXPERIENCE WITH THE WILSON CUSTOMIZED R-9 ?
cuttime. Welcome to the Forum. I, too, have no experience with the Wilson Custom either, however, there are a few Forum members that do, and as John says, will chime in. Again, welcome.
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Welcome Michman82,
I have relatively small hands and my hands and forearms are less muscular than when I was in the military, yet at age over 65 with some arthritis in my hands I find the felt recoil of the R9 quite tolerable even after firing 30 or 40 rounds at the range. I had a Keltec PF9 with sharper recoil and much less reliability and traded it. I also had a Walther PPK in 380 that had a quite sharp felt recoil and also pinched the web of my thumb very uncomfortably. It too is gone. The R9 recoils, but does not hurt the hand or feel uncomfortable to shoot, at least for me. It does require excellent ammo and is selective in what it likes. It needs regular care and really good cleaning and lubrication to be reliable. It is initially hard to take down to clean, but there are takedown tools available on this forum which make that chore much easier if you wish.
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I own several Kahrs, including a newer PM9 and an old P9 covert.
The R9 recoils about the same as a PM9.
The trigger pull is very long but smooth, very similar to a PM9 but the R9 is a little smoother.
The "bite" of the R9 is less, as the rough textured backstrap of the PM9 starts to rub the skin raw on my hand after about 100 rounds. The R9 is smooth and doesn't do that. Although both leave some sore spots after extended firing.
My R9 is more accurate than my PM9, but the difference isn't real-world significant for a carry pistol.
Also I noticed you mentioned the LCP. I think the R9s perceived recoil is somewhat more than the LCP or P3AT but the thinner/sharper grip of the LCP and it's lighter weight gives me the impression of a sharper, more abrupt recoil as compared to the more "pushy" but heavier impulse of the R9.
I know that is not a good technical evaluation of recoil, but it may give you some idea as to how it feels relative to the other pistols.
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Michman82,
Welcome. I hope you find the forum as helpful and informative as I have.
I am selling my PM40 because the R9 has spoiled me. My finger did not fit in the trigger guard of the Kahr and I got blisters when I shot it.
The Seecamps (both .32 & .380) have a different feel as they are so much smaller.
I found the 147 grain 9mm ammo a joy to shoot in the R9. Much less recoil and muzzle flash than the white box W/W 115 grain ammo.
Good luck!