The Rohrbaugh Forum

Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: Fud on September 08, 2009, 05:23:26 PM

Title: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rounds.
Post by: Fud on September 08, 2009, 05:23:26 PM
Just came across the following ...
Quote
Well, I got a big surprise today. I work at a gun shop and we sell the Rohrbaugh R9 pistols. They're very small and slick pocket pistols and very expensive too. Last week 2 different customers brought back their R9's for repair. One had just bought it the day before and the trigger wasn't working, and the other one had had the gun for a while and had shot it quite a bit and was having the same problem with the trigger. They wanted the guns sent back to the factory for repair, which we were glad to do, but we were surprised as they were the first ones we've had come back.

The factory was closed until this week, so we shipped the guns off on Monday, but apparently the owner of the gun who'd had it for a while also called the factory Monday to talk to them about his problem. He told us that he had mentioned to whoever he spoke to at the factory that he had fired 150 rounds through the gun when it stopped working and was told that the gun shouldn't be fired that much as it was meant to be a carry gun and not a regular shooting gun!

To be honest, we assumed that the guy either misunderstood what he was told or outright made it up. It didn't make any sense that a gun that finely made and expensive wasn't made to be shot a lot. Except that today the head of Rohrbaugh, Karl Rohrbaugh, called us about the guns we had sent and during the course of the discussion he confirmed that the gun was not intended to be shot a lot and that 150 rounds was too much. He said that every few months he shoots a magazine full through his gun, cleans and reloads it, then puts it back in his pocket. Of course, he's going to fix the guns and send them back to us, but that still doesn't explain the crazy limitation on shooting.

I certainly don't mean to offend anyone who has or likes the guns, nor am I saying that it's a bad gun, but I thought this information should be shared since nowhere on the company's website does it say anything about this important restriction. Also, I have to admit that I have not read the gun's manual and don't know if this matter is mentioned there, but even if it is it's very likely that a buyer would not see it until after purchasing the gun. I have to say that I'm very surprised and disappointed by the whole matter and I just wanted to pass on the information to anyone interested.
... ????????
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Prescottian on September 08, 2009, 05:56:43 PM
Fud-
Could you tell us the source of the quote you ran across, and especially the date of the statement attributed to Karl R.?
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: sdlsaginaw on September 08, 2009, 08:09:24 PM
I don't know if he said it, but the statement is partially true.  150 rounds is a lot to shoot all at once.

The failures were almost certainly loose grip screws.  They should not have needed a trip back to the factory.

What Karl probably meant (if he actually said it) is that you can expect FTE/FTF failures if you shoot it that much at once and don't let it cool or clean it.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: tracker on September 08, 2009, 08:40:54 PM
150 rounds with the R9 in one session would loosen my screws.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: BytorJr on September 08, 2009, 09:00:41 PM
First of all give a source for this, don't just copy it.  I can see this on glocktalk or some other board with obvious biases towards one gun or the other.  

That said, sure, 150 rounds on the recoil spring...may as well replace it.  Trigger pull = grip screws without a doubt.  150 rounds and they'll be loose if not loctite'd.    

150 rounds...then there are a lot of "broken" guns on this forum.

This type of disinformation could land one in court IMO.  It's defamation of character to quote Karl.   This guy should have given his name and his gun shop if he wanted to be honest...if not, don't bother posting it as fact.  

Note, this isn't directed at OUR poster, just the person making this supposed claim.


ps...I'd rather try 150 round with an R9 than a 340 series J-frame :).
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: yankee2500 on September 08, 2009, 10:45:49 PM
"ps...I'd rather try 150 round with an R9 than a 340 series J-frame"

I'll second that ;D
John
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: slashsplat on September 08, 2009, 11:52:22 PM
Our cohort DDGator participated in that.  http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/defensive-carry-guns/39426-lowdown-rohrbaugh-r9.html

He posed well-spoken logic and defended our pistol expertly.

"Carry a lot, shoot a little."
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: yankee2500 on September 09, 2009, 06:20:49 PM
The sad thing about an article like that is the moment some people read it they think it is the gospel, and say I wouldn't buy one of those. As in anything you read or hear if you do some research on your own you will find the facts do not always match the story. You hear storys from some that any 1911 with a 3" barrel will never be reliable, if this were anywere near true why would nearly every company that makes a 1911 style pistol make a 3" model, so they can loose money on repairs and warrenty work?
John
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Fud on September 10, 2009, 05:06:43 AM

Could you tell us the source of the quote you ran across, and especially the date of the statement attributed to Karl R.?[/quote]


That said, sure, 150 rounds on the recoil spring...may as well replace it.  Trigger pull = grip screws without a doubt.  150 rounds and they'll be loose if not loctite'd.    

150 rounds...then there are a lot of "broken" guns on this forum.

This type of disinformation could land one in court IMO.  It's defamation of character to quote Karl.   This guy should have given his name and his gun shop if he wanted to be honest...if not, don't bother posting it as fact.  

Note, this isn't directed at OUR poster, just the person making this supposed claim.


ps...I'd rather try 150 round with an R9 than a 340 series J-frame :).
[/quote][/list]Didn't want to start an inter-board war if it could be avoided.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Fud on September 10, 2009, 05:07:50 AM
Quote
Our cohort DDGator participated in that.  http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/defensive-carry-guns/39426-lowdown-rohrbaugh-r9.html

He posed well-spoken logic and defended our pistol expertly.

"Carry a lot, shoot a little."
I re-posted DDGator's comments from that link and it seemed to put the matter to rest. Thanks for the assist.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Richard S on September 10, 2009, 11:42:54 AM
I consider my R9 to be an up-close personal-defense weapon. As the smallest and lightest pistol available chambered for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge and with minimal tolerances, the R9 is a masterpiece of form and function which has been my EDC for over five years. I occasionally run a magazine through it just to maintain familiarity. However, if I want to run 150 or more rounds through a pistol, I've got 1911s which are built for just that type of work.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Reinz on September 11, 2009, 08:58:18 PM
Quote
I consider my R9 to be an up-close personal-defense weapon. As the smallest and lightest pistol available chambered for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge and with minimal tolerances, the R9 is a masterpiece of form and function which has been my EDC for over five years. I occasionally run a magazine through it just to maintain familiarity. However, if I want to run 150 or more rounds through a pistol, I've got 1911s which are built for just that type of work.


+1

Reinz
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: robfxlr on September 13, 2009, 01:43:41 AM
 :-/
I bought a Rohrbaugh R9 in April in Delray Beach, Fl. Immediately after using my Amex fror the "mortgage like" payment, I went into the range in the gun shop and immediately realized the temperamental Rohrbaugh is not meant to fire practrice ammo as I had all sorts of FTFs and double strikes. This was corrected when I used the recommended ammo and I was able to put 25 rounds thru it with no issues.
Once I got home I realized that the Rohrbaugh is not so easy to disassemble and re assemble and actually requires some dexterity.
After my initial disappointment, I always felt that this was not a gun I would "stake my life on" I am a retired NYPD Detective  of 20 years, half of that time was with a wheel gun and half with a Glock 9mm. I would NEVER put the Rohrbaugh in either of these leagues in reliability and for my personal opinions, could never carry this gun as a primary carry/life saver.
With that said, I sold the Rohrbaugh to a local dealer, lost a bit, but not bad, and was able to get my hands on a Kahr P380 and still get some $$$ back from my trade. I previouslly owned a Ruger LCP which I loved but sold for the Rohrbaugh (big mistake). Anyway, it is a happy ending, if I hadn't traded my Ruger LCP for the Rohrbaugh, I never would have wound up with the Kahr. It is an amazing gun, put 75 rounds thru it out of the box, with cheap target ammo and expensive ammo - the gun performed flawless! It is amazing, it not only has a slide lock, but the slide locks when empty. The little gun does not operate like a mouse gun- blowback, it works like the bigger semi autos, and ejects rounds with an extractor- sorry-not a gun expert here.
Anyway, from what they say, a Kahr is not "broken in" until about 400 rounds- I am confident enough to carry it now, after 75 rounds and a good cleaning. I cannot say enough good about the Kahr, flawless precision, impeccable quality- actually like a shrunken biugger semi auto instead of a tiny compact pistol. There is no difference and no sacrifices. The sights are "real" and I can shoot it as accurately as a large frame gun. Design characteristics are such that recoil is much less than a Kel tec or Ruger .380 and the gun is so light that I never carry the North American Arms 22 mag I also own-this gun is as light and small.
Although I am sorry to be a "former" Rohrbaugh owner, I cannot stress enough the comfort I now feel that I have a "real" dependable pocket pistol.
I highly recommend the Kahr, although aboput twice the price of a Ruger LCP.
I know it will not be a popular opinion on this forum, but I am one of a few here that probably owned a Ruger LCP, Rohrbaugh R9 and a Kahr P380- in my mind, there is no doubt I made the right decision. I am thoroughly convinced I could put 1,000 rounds thru the Kahr in one range session, without incident- no grip screws to tighten, no spring to replace-sheer nonsense for a supposed high end, designer gun.........
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: theirishguard on September 13, 2009, 12:19:58 PM
thats why there are Fords and Chevs.  Tom
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: BytorJr on September 13, 2009, 12:51:25 PM
Disappointing to hear.  However, I would have a least cleaned and lubed it before shooting.

Also, if you were shooting S&B ammo, they have really hard primers and that could have been an issue with "practice" ammo.

I am glad to hear the Kahr is working well.  Good luck!

Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Richard S on September 13, 2009, 03:46:54 PM
Quote
thats why there are Fords and Chevs.  Tom

And Ferraris.  8)
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: yankee2500 on September 13, 2009, 05:14:34 PM
 robfxlr, though I'm sorry to hear about your problems with the Rohrbaugh and am glad the Kahr makes you happy, but the Kahr 380s are not without problems. Here is a post from a P380 owner
Here are excerpts from a letter I sent to Kahr:


Enclosed herewith please find my Model P380 serial # RA05xx in the original hard case, along with the two original magazines. This item was bought by me new (yesterday) on June 24, 2009. I went to the range the next day (today) to put the recommended two hundred rounds through it in order to properly break it in. (I used ball type ammo. for the entire incident). I must say that it was a very discouraging experience. Right from the first round, I experienced jams with numerous failure to feed instances. At first, the magazines would not feed with more than four rounds loaded. They seem to have loosened up after a while, to actually feed while loaded with six rounds. Upon closer inspection, after a while, I was able to observe that as one inserts a loaded magazine, the end of the slide stop was protruding into the magazine well, and contacting the top of the round, basically obstructing it and thereby preventing the round from loading into the barrel chamber properly. Also at the range, as well as later on the phone with your tech. support department, while attempting to chamber a round from the magazine, I also experienced several instances where the round would jam at about a 45 degree angle between the barrel and rear of the slide. Occasionally the round would make it further into the barrel before jamming with the slide stuck partially back. This necessitated a sharp blow to the rear of the slide with the palm of the left hand to get the slide closed properly.

After researching my problem and symptoms on the internet, I read that there are others who experience the same type problems with this model and they mention who by name at the company (Sean) helped them resolve their problem. There is also a lot of Kahr bashing and experiences described followed by suggestions that one should not buy a Kahr pistol due to reliability issues regarding jamming, FTF's, etc..

I decided on going with your brand yesterday, I hoped to find quality in your product, but was quite a bit put off by the problems I encountered. I had hoped to carry this pistol with me everywhere, and never have to worry about it, but as of now, this is not the case.

I appreciate your quick assistance on the phone, and hope you can get this pistol to load, shoot, eject, and cycle properly. It is a bad feeling to have paid quite a bit more for a Kahr P380 than for a P-3AT or an LCP. I would like this beautiful little gun to get working properly. am going to post my experience with your company on the internet, and I would really like to show all the Kahr-bashers that they are wrong, and that your service is above Kel-Tec and Ruger, and indeed if you spend the extra cash to get the Kahr, it is worth it, and you get what you pay for.

His issues were taken care of but only because he returned it to the factory, which you did not do with the Rohrbaugh and had you purchased the P380 he had you would have sold it and what would you be shooting now?
John
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: tracker on September 13, 2009, 06:28:33 PM
I think i would find a functioning .9mm instead of a .380 for self defense purposes.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: kjtrains on September 13, 2009, 06:47:32 PM
I'll 2nd that!
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: robfxlr on September 14, 2009, 01:05:39 AM
utter malarchy. I had no specific issues with the R9 other than it is not a reliable gun and is more of a dewsigner safe queen. I could cut and paste blogs from dissatisfied R9 buyers and range reports but I would probably run out of space on this forum.
Even an ardent supporter such as yourself has to see that is the truth.

Great answer, Rob!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o ;D ::) :P
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: robfxlr on September 14, 2009, 01:08:55 AM
Agree with that, a "functioning" 9mm, key word. I love the Kahr for its size and weight, couldnt even imagine a far fetched reason to carry a Rohrbaugh over a comparable Glock other than for the size. But then again, huge huge sacrifice on reliability and dependability.
I have seen many a Rohrbaugh issue and the name "Maria" bandied aboiut on this forum. There are more disappointed reports from first range oputings than I have ever seen on any other forum..........
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Richard S on September 14, 2009, 10:23:25 AM
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=RangeReports;action=display;num=1252817283;#12
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: DDGator on September 14, 2009, 11:07:41 AM
A lot of this has to do with stuffing a 9mm into the smallest package available.  I bet experience will show the Rohrbaugh 380 runs like a top forever.  I am going to start shooting mine and try to wear it out.  ;)  Depends on what you looking for -- a 9mm or a .380.  Very different animals from an engineering perspective.

Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: musicman on September 14, 2009, 01:34:46 PM
Quote
Agree with that, a "functioning" 9mm, key word. I love the Kahr for its size and weight, couldnt even imagine a far fetched reason to carry a Rohrbaugh over a comparable Glock other than for the size. But then again, huge huge sacrifice on reliability and dependability.
I have seen many a Rohrbaugh issue and the name "Maria" bandied aboiut on this forum. There are more disappointed reports from first range oputings than I have ever seen on any other forum..........

hi Rob, somehow i think you have the completely wrong idea here....

The R9 is superior to the Kahr on so many levels... the number of Kahr problems is staggering...

i have PM 45 from Kahr, and it is the most problematic weapon i have ever encountered. Having said that, i do love it, as it packs a great punch for its size but it does have some issues to overcome in the quality department.

My R9 has been flawless from the box... its gone bang every single time i have pulled the trigger.  At this time i have around 100 total rounds through it.  

Its very simple, it only likes certain ammo... once you find that you are golden... Like Mr R says, shoot it a little and carry a lot...its certainly not a range gun.  I love my Glocks too...and those are the real battle weapons, but they cannot be compared to the R9, its like saying you dont like your BMW sportster cause you cant carry around a load of Firewood in it...

Every couple of weeks i rock a couple mags and the one in the pipe, just to be cerain it fires, and it always does...

As for take down, its not hard at all, i have Sigs that are more of a pain than this...how hard is it to pop out a little pin ?  

I of course think to each his own, and can understand why you would feel the way you do... but this is the R9 site, and as you can expect, we love our little pups here...

I encourage you to try it again, if you have any Ammo questions, there are tons of experts here that can help you get it rolling...

If not, i tried... all the best
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Evan on September 14, 2009, 07:13:18 PM
Musicman,

I have the R9S and love it, but I cannot knock Kahr, I have a PM9, it is also an excellent gun, they are both great, although I have never had my Kahr refuse ANY ammo. And the Kahr is very accurate. Again I rate them both very high, with a plus on the Rohrbaugh only because it is not poly.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Stonebender on September 15, 2009, 03:00:50 AM
Any of you guys "tired" of your R9's "acting up",  let me know...   I'll be GLAD to take them off your hands.  ::)
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Joe_from_NY on May 25, 2011, 03:39:06 AM
Quote
robfxlr, though I'm sorry to hear about your problems with the Rohrbaugh and am glad the Kahr makes you happy, but the Kahr 380s are not without problems. Here is a post from a P380 owner
Here are excerpts from a letter I sent to Kahr:


Enclosed herewith please find my Model P380... snip  yada yada yada...  

Hey Yank, i started reading your post and thought that letter writer writes exactly like me. Then i realized i wrote it two years ago, long before I joined this forum. What site was it on? i forgot I posted it.  BTW the Kahr has been flawless for over a thousand rounds since they tweaked it at the factory.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: yankee2500 on May 25, 2011, 10:46:06 AM
Joe,
   I couldn't tell you if there was a million dollar prize for the right answer. It was two years ago and I probably just did a search of Kahr problems.
  I have a P380 and a PM 40 and have had no problems with either and like them very much but neither will replace my R9.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: JohnBT on May 25, 2011, 04:18:50 PM
"I could cut and paste blogs from dissatisfied R9 buyers"

That is  true of every make and model of gun, including Glocks and Colts and Kahrs and all the rest.

My R9 has been fine for over 4 years. I carry it everyday and I bought the little sucker used.  

John
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Richard S on May 25, 2011, 07:04:40 PM
Quote
"I could cut and paste blogs from dissatisfied R9 buyers"

That is  true of every make and model of gun, including Glocks and Colts and Kahrs and all the rest.

My R9 has been fine for over 4 years. I carry it everyday and I bought the little sucker used.  

John

The author of the quoted line claimed in post # 12 above to be a "retired NYPD Detective."  Perhaps, then, he knew the legendary Jim Cirillo who, before his untimely death in a motor vehicle accident, lent the following endorsement to the R9:

[size=10]"Your Rohrbaugh (R9) 9mm is the greatest backup gun in the world."
Jim Cirillo,
NYPD Officer and writer, instructor [/size]

http://rohrbaughfirearms.com/testimonials
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: MRC on May 25, 2011, 07:31:17 PM
"Backup".  I can agree with that!
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: yankee2500 on May 25, 2011, 08:18:09 PM
Different strokes for different folks, Primary Carry for me and no reservations whatsoever. ;D  My pup will fire anything I feed it always has.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: kjtrains on May 25, 2011, 08:34:30 PM
I do like the R9; for me, never a complaint; and love those blue carbon fiber grips!    :)
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Reinz on May 26, 2011, 02:56:53 AM
Gee I did'nt know they sucked so much, I've only been trusting my life to one for 5yrs now.  And now starting with duals.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: HAWGONE on June 07, 2011, 03:59:13 PM
NEW TO THE FORUM, JUST CHECKING OUT WHAT OWNERS LIKE, DISLIKE ABOUT THEIR R9 SINCE I'M Cupj4iiywjfONSIDERING THIS FOR CCW.  DID SEE THIS THIS DISCUSSION ON YOUTUBE BETWEEN KARL ROHRBAUGH AND A VISITOR TO GUESSING A LARGE GUN SHOW OR A SHOT SHOW EVENT.  IF YOU GO TO YOUTUBE AND SEARCH THIS:  Karl Rohrbaugh on the R9 Gun's Role in Life.  KARL CONFIRMS WHAT THIS POST STATES.  BASICALLY THIS PISTOL IS A CARRY PIECE AND NOT INTENDED TO BE USED AS A TARGET PISTOL.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Joe_from_NY on June 07, 2011, 04:43:36 PM
Quote
NEW TO THE FORUM, JUST CHECKING OUT WHAT OWNERS LIKE, DISLIKE ABOUT THEIR R9 SINCE I'M Cupj4iiywjfONSIDERING THIS FOR CCW.  DID SEE THIS THIS DISCUSSION ON YOUTUBE BETWEEN KARL ROHRBAUGH AND A VISITOR TO GUESSING A LARGE GUN SHOW OR A SHOT SHOW EVENT.  IF YOU GO TO YOUTUBE AND SEARCH THIS:  Karl Rohrbaugh on the R9 Gun's Role in Life.  KARL CONFIRMS WHAT THIS POST STATES.  BASICALLY THIS PISTOL IS A CARRY PIECE AND NOT INTENDED TO BE USED AS A TARGET PISTOL.

Wow, you mean it's not a target pistol? no wonder i have so much trouble hitting the bullseye at 75 yards. I wish i would have known that before i spent $1200 each for two of them. Oh well, maybe i will try carrying it for self defense now, so I can at least use it for something and my money won't have been totally wasted.  And BTW, all them caps make your post look like gobley-gook brother.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Joe_from_NY on June 07, 2011, 07:19:37 PM
Hey HAWGONE-
I hope you were able to laugh at my humor, i didn't mean to come off as too harsh.  ;D
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: kjtrains on June 07, 2011, 08:28:45 PM
HAWGONE.  Welcome to the Forum.  Jump right in there and get the R9.  You'll be glad you did!    :)
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Joe_from_NY on June 07, 2011, 10:55:33 PM
Quote
:-/
I bought a Rohrbaugh R9 in April in Delray Beach, Fl. Immediately after using my Amex fror the "mortgage like" payment, I went into the range in the gun shop and immediately realized the temperamental Rohrbaugh is not meant to fire practrice ammo as I had all sorts of FTFs and double strikes.
After my initial disappointment, I always felt that this was not a gun I would "stake my life on" I am a retired NYPD Detective  of 20 years,
Snip...

Quote
Agree with that, a "functioning" 9mm, key word. I love the Kahr for its size and weight, couldnt even imagine a far fetched reason to carry a Rohrbaugh over a comparable Glock other than for the size. But then again, huge huge sacrifice on reliability and dependability.
I have seen many a Rohrbaugh issue and the name "Maria" bandied aboiut on this forum. There are more disappointed reports from first range oputings than I have ever seen on any other forum..........


Man, and they say I am a negative dude. I haven't seen dudes this negative since my time on the NYPD.
 ;)  ;)
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: TBI on June 07, 2011, 11:30:12 PM
I just keep on shooting my R9S.....just like I do any other pistol. Keeps on shooting and shooting.  
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Reinz on June 08, 2011, 02:52:30 PM
As I've said before in different lingo, all you gotta do is examine the R9.  If you know anything about guns at all, it is easy to see that you have precision in your hands.
Which means she'll hold up to use, but not abuse.

Some guys just don't understand precision and never will.  You have probalbyl talked to them; like the guy who slams Wilson, NightHawk, Les Baer, Eddie Brown and claims his stock Norinco can outshoot them.

You can't fix stoopid, but you can fix ignorance, but sometimes that lightbulb just won't go on.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: ACP on June 08, 2011, 03:12:11 PM
This is an interesting string that has encouraged me to check out youtube and other gun blogs. My thanks to forum members for their attachments that facilitated my review.

The antagonist has, after all, disappeared nearly 2 years ago. His having chosen this forum to s%^t and run is weird. Did he leave the NYPD and go to work for Kahr?

The fact that the R9S has a shelf life of 150 rounds is ludicrous and I find it both sad and comical to read the blogs of those that choose not to understand the difference between a practice session of 150 rounds and the lifetime of a gun.

The same youtube that the antagonist points out to underscore his criticism of the R9 is festooned with praise of the gun known and loved by us on this forum.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Richard S on June 08, 2011, 03:33:40 PM
Reinz said it well. Ignorance is a potentially remediable condition. Stupidity cannot be cured.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Carter on June 08, 2011, 05:53:08 PM
Quote

Wow, you mean it's not a target pistol? no wonder i have so much trouble hitting the bullseye at 75 yards. I wish i would have known that before i spent $1200 each for two of them.

Not a target pistol? Oh crap.

How come I didn't find this out until just after I got my Pup drilled and tapped for a scope?

I mean, jeez, I just started to get good with it on bowling pin matches, so I thought I should scope it and try it out on Silhouette...






 ;D

Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Reinz on June 08, 2011, 05:55:49 PM
 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: HAWGONE on June 08, 2011, 06:06:51 PM
Joe_from_NY

No offense taken Joe.  Wrong choice of words using target rather than range pistol.  Any way I wasn't trying to be critical of the pistol, just advising some additional information I saw (heard) on the subject.  I understand the intended use of this pistol is shoot little and carry alot.

kjtrains - thanks for the welcome.  Hoping to find an R9 in a local shop to get a better feel if the pistol is for me.  
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Reinz on June 08, 2011, 08:08:05 PM
HAWGONE - I apologize for not noticing that you are new to the forum.  Sometimes I get a bit tunnel visioned.

Welcome to the best forum on the net.  

Please come and post often.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: yankee2500 on June 08, 2011, 08:35:49 PM
HAWGONE, a welcome from me as well.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: kjtrains on June 08, 2011, 10:09:35 PM
Quote
As I've said before in different lingo, all you gotta do is examine the R9.  If you know anything about guns at all, it is easy to see that you have precision in your hands.
Which means she'll hold up to use, but not abuse.

Some guys just don't understand precision and never will.  You have probalbyl talked to them; like the guy who slams Wilson, NightHawk, Les Baer, Eddie Brown and claims his stock Norinco can outshoot them.

You can't fix stoopid, but you can fix ignorance, but sometimes that lightbulb just won't go on.

Reinz.  That is true.  There are some folks that look for something to rant about and that's how they get that desire fed;  keeping on with their ranting.  Then they just go away and rant somewhere else.    :)
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Joe_from_NY on June 09, 2011, 12:29:29 AM
Quote
HAWGONE - I apologize for not noticing that you are new to the forum....

yeah, i saw HAWGONE was new here, so i gave him a bit of sarcasm to let him know we were reading his post and welcome him to the spot. i just hope he keeps his caps lock off.
 ;D
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: kjtrains on June 09, 2011, 12:44:41 AM
Quote

Not a target pistol? Oh crap.

How come I didn't find this out until just after I got my Pup drilled and tapped for a scope?

I mean, jeez, I just started to get good with it on bowling pin matches, so I thought I should scope it and try it out on Silhouette...






 ;D


Go for it Carter.  There's an R9 just been posted with a silencer, so why not a scope!    ;)
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: backupr9 on July 03, 2011, 05:46:34 PM
Too lazy to read all through the middle of the thread, but it is clear to me that the Kahr, PF9, LCP's are likely built to much lower tolerances than the R9, allowing more rounds to be fired at one sitting without soiling and overheating the pistol enough to change tolerances of moving parts enough to affect function.  I cannot imaging firing more than 6 magazines at the range, and only then if I'm comparing ammo or the reliability of different magazines.  

I guess if one plans on going into prolonged combat with only a diminutive pocket gun, it might be best to use a cheaper one since your opponent will likely take it from your corpse anyway.
 ;D  ;)
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Reinz on July 03, 2011, 06:46:21 PM
I hear ya.

But on the other hand, It depends upon my time, and venue and targets.

Once I get going, time permitting, it's fun to test the limitaions of the gun, and shooter, as well as work on marksmanship; with the added joy of plinking.

For me, after the 5-6 mags you mentioned; shooting paper, I'm bored out of my skull.  If I have steel to shoot at, shotgun hulls and wads on the ground, cans and such, I'll go till the ammo is gone.  
And I bring a lot of ammo!  ;D
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Richard S on July 03, 2011, 07:19:29 PM
Quote
I consider my R9 to be an up-close personal-defense weapon. As the smallest and lightest pistol available chambered for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge and with minimal tolerances, the R9 is a masterpiece of form and function which has been my EDC for over five years. I occasionally run a magazine through it just to maintain familiarity. However, if I want to run 150 or more rounds through a pistol, I've got 1911s which are built for just that type of work.

This thread was started by "Fud" on September 8, 2009. It must be the provocative subject line which causes the thread to be repeatedly brought forward from archive.

I posted the above-quoted response on September 10, 2009. With the amendment of deleting the words, "five years," and substituting in lieu thereof the words, "seven years," I hereby reaffirm that post.  8)

And here is Rohrbaugh R9s No. 132 as it appears today after seven years as my EDC weapon -- a weapon that has yet to show any vices and which I trust completely . . . seven years and counting:

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/OutofAfrica--HisHers-1.jpg)

Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: kjtrains on July 03, 2011, 08:36:33 PM
Haven't had the 127 but a little over 9 months now, but trust it implicitly.  It now resides in a Meco Sharkskin; and no, it doesn't stay in the safe.    :)

(http://s575.photobucket.com/albums/ss197/kjtrains/R9127andMecoSharkskinHolster016.jpg)
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: JohnBT on July 05, 2011, 04:45:44 PM
"I cannot imaging firing more than 6 magazines at the range,"

I shot mine 101 times the first time I took it to the range. It was still running, but I was getting beat up a little, so I quit after round one of the third box of 50. I had planned on shooting it 150 times that day, but old age caught up with me.  :)
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: rodell on July 06, 2011, 09:19:42 AM
A hundred is a bunch.  I use a 5.11 tactical glove and I can do 100 but it isn't fun after 99.

Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Joe_from_NY on July 06, 2011, 04:11:32 PM
Quote
... but it is clear to me that the Kahr, PF9, LCP's are likely built to much lower tolerances than the R9, allowing more rounds to be fired at one sitting without soiling and overheating the pistol enough to change tolerances of moving parts enough to affect function...

Yeah man, for real. I was at the range today, and a guy handed me his Kel Tec 9mm to look at. The tolerances are so loose, that when you shake it in your hand, the parts rattle around sounding like a pocket full of loose change. I showed him my R9, and he couldn't believe how close the fit of the parts was. Then he saw my Seecamp 380 on the table, and said, "Wow, you really have the Rolls Royce of pistols with these two."  

In my opinion, the Kel Tec 9mm really looks like a cheap piece of junk up close, and handling it will make clear the differences. It reminded me of the Bryco, Jennings, Davis, Lorcin, Hi-Point, etc... junk guns that used to be all over the streets of the city in the '80s and early '90s. Exploding pieces of crap, more reliably useful as hand grenades.

(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv21/tye_g_wolfe/Hi Point/HiPoint06.jpg)

(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv21/tye_g_wolfe/Hi Point/HiPoint04.jpg)

(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv21/tye_g_wolfe/Hi Point/HiPoint02.jpg)

(http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/attachments/powder-keg/15889d1228315613-lorcin-25-auto-woes-what-causes-this1.jpg)

(http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/1001259m.jpg)

(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/9683/talont200.jpg)

(http://picturearchive.auctionarms.com/7578162644/7577196/36e5571658789f4d416deefb9639d9e9.jpg)

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTfRkkUamLazwGYKA1xS7JInGXiun9Gj13awyz7ZvHAvjTJI7u0&t=1)

You get the idea...
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Relic on July 06, 2011, 05:26:57 PM
150 rounds huh?   ::)
After 340 rounds on the same recoil spring I did this write up:

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=Cleaning;action=display;num=1309982292

Nothing of any note really, the pistol is wearing in just like any other made of similar materials.  It's got a long life of shooting ahead of it.

From what I can see, I'm thousands of rounds away from any concern about longevity.  I'll write it up again after 1500 rounds or so.  At 340 rounds the outer recoil spring has lost about 11% of it's rate compared to the one new one I have.  I'll replace that although I think it still has some life in it.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Richard S on July 06, 2011, 08:28:20 PM
Joe:

Those photographs really made my day -- what a gallery of unadulterated crap!

The photo of the Bryco .380 ACP brought back a memory. A few years ago I spent some time representing a small private college and as such was asked to "vet" their expulsions and other potentially controversial personnel actions. One of the students had been caught by campus security with a Bryco .380 on his person. His expulsion was approved. But the purpose of this recitation is to note that the slide on that piece of junk he was carrying around was literally "welded" in place by rust. That was probably a good thing, since the magazine had been loaded with about three mismatched rounds of .32 ACP ammunition.

A real "wannabe gangbanger," that one was.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: garymass on July 06, 2011, 08:34:18 PM
Quote

Yeah man, for real. I was at the range today, and a guy handed me his Kel Tec 9mm to look at. The tolerances are so loose, that when you shake it in your hand, the parts rattle around sounding like a pocket full of loose change. I showed him my R9, and he couldn't believe how close the fit of the parts was. Then he saw my Seecamp 380 on the table, and said, "Wow, you really have the Rolls Royce of pistols with these two."  

In my opinion, the Kel Tec 9mm really looks like a cheap piece of junk up close, and handling it will make clear the differences. It reminded me of the Bryco, Jennings, Davis, Lorcin, Hi-Point, etc... junk guns that used to be all over the streets of the city in the '80s and early '90s. Exploding pieces of crap, more reliably useful as hand grenades.

******************************************************

Thats great, yea that was the craze for awhile every bad guy had a piece of crap gun then they thought they were great when the tec-9 came out.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: kjtrains on July 06, 2011, 08:49:59 PM
Joe.  Thanks for the photos.  Really makes you think of the stuff out there; quite amazing!
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Reinz on July 06, 2011, 09:32:05 PM




deleted
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: kjtrains on July 06, 2011, 09:38:37 PM
OK!    ;D
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: flintsghost on July 07, 2011, 08:19:31 AM
Haven't been here in a while.  This thread did surprise me.  Not only am I a retired LEO but also was for many years the chief firearms instructor for the state agency.  I'm also a former owner of a Kahr PM9 which I gave a tryout to before deciding on a R9S for myself and got one for my offspring.   We both carry them and I put mine on daily and while I have left the property without it, that is very rare.

The 6 rd group I fired out of my son's when first it arrived was published on this forum complete with pics and it surprised even me out of a pistol like an R9S.  However the PM9, that I had was another story altogether and would not equal the performance which the R9s's we have are producing.   I never carried the PM9 and it now belongs to someone else and they like it just fine.   At that time my carry was a Colt Defender .45acp and a SIG 239 .40 and they continued to be until the R9s proved to be as reliable and capable as it did.   Since then  the R9s has been with me everyday.    I trust it completely.

As to pistols that rattle or don't, that really isn't an acceptable standard for a defensive sidearm.   I have a small accumulation of  WW2  1911A1's that are unmodified in any way and all saw some service after manufacture.  Some more than others but all to some degree.   Each rattles when shaken and not just a small amount.   They, as a breed, are famous for the rattles and reliability.   My Colt defender and my SIG 239 both rattle to some degree and I know they both work reliably.    The fact the R9s doesn't wasn't even a slight consideration when I bought them.   The accuracy and reliability was.   I didn't have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to figure out my R9S wasn't designed to be shot a lot at any one outing or that other pistols were better suited for longer range work.   The very first time I saw a picture of one I figured that out...and without help too.      I think "opinions" are like a well known part of the human anatomy...everyone's got one.   That's fine and the only one that matters to me is my own.   I think each of us has the right to think what we want and I don't expect anyone to agree with me.  

On the other hand I believe through experience, dealing with the public at large, that included more than my share of pin heads,  that Ron White is correct when he says that you can fix almost anything but, "You can't fix stupid."
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: backupr9 on July 07, 2011, 10:33:16 AM
Hope I offended no one with comments about my Keltec PF9...it did rattle when shaken, a mark of looser tolerances and probably a characteristic that would allow it to tolerate more soiling and loose dirt without FFF than the Rohrbaugh would allow.  My dislike of the pistol was based on a longer trigger travel than I could use for aimed fire and the fact that it jammed too frequently for me to trust it.  With close up snap fire patterns it did OK and the trigger pull was not then an issue.  It was traded for those reasons, but because of the looseness and I do think Keltec does a good job for the price with its products.

My U.S. Army issue 45 also rattled badly when shaken, but was nevertheless functional.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: yankee2500 on July 07, 2011, 12:02:15 PM
The only one with any real right to take offense of your comments is whoever owns the company or maybe someone who makes them.
 I have never owned or shot a Keltec but have handled several and based on how they look and feel I have no desire to own or shoot one.
  As buyers of firearms we all have our own prospective of the products worthiness and value for our intended use after examining it or trying it out. Lets face it not every gun is for everyone, I've read on here and elsewhere of owners not liking the R9, so be it, to each his own. If you like Keltecs thats great if you hate Chevys thats fine too.  :D
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Relic on July 07, 2011, 01:11:37 PM
Kel Tec's are ugly as sin, with the fit and finish of a Harbor Freight power tool, but every one I've shot was reliable and they are bargain priced.  I've owned two Kel Tec rifles and two P3ATs.

All are very reliable, but the mag release on the P3ATs was far to easy to depress and they would drop their mag's in my pocket or when drawing.  That's not good for a carry pistol, but it was fun to shoot.

Fun guns at a fair price, but I prefer other options for a defensive firearm.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Joe_from_NY on July 08, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
While looking at busted guns, for full disclosure, i must add this photo of my Seecamp .32 .  This occurred at about 25 rounds on my first range trip after i bought it used. It was almost 20 years old, and i clearly dont know the history (of abuse) of the gun. But as expected, i called up Seecamp, and with no questions whatsoever asked, Larry said  "Yeah, OK, send that gun back to us and we will take care of it." He replaced the slide, and machined the pistol to bring it up to their modern production standards, along with a new magazine (for those of you who own an a LWS32, note the mag base plate, and how the design has changed over time). All covered under warranty. That is customer service beyond reasonable expectations, for an owner who-knows how far down the line from the original.

(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/CIMG2590forsite.jpg)
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: ccoorreeyy on July 08, 2011, 12:50:23 PM
Thats Larry!  
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Relic on July 08, 2011, 01:23:17 PM
I've never seen a "blown up" Seecamp before.   :o
That kind of warranty service on a 20yo firearm is why Seecamp is know as a premier firearms manufacturer.

How about a picture of the repaired pistol just in the interests of gun pron.  :)
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Reinz on July 08, 2011, 02:55:04 PM
That is Outstanding Service- that can not be topped !
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Reinz on July 08, 2011, 02:56:51 PM
BTW - assuming that it is not a custom serial #, being #21, it really would be an early model for sure.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Joe_from_NY on July 08, 2011, 07:03:24 PM
Quote
BTW - assuming that it is not a custom serial #, being #21, it really would be an early model for sure.

Nah, you can see where i loaded the photo into Microsoft Paint, and copied and pasted a swatch of blank gun color over the last three digits of the serial number. It was 021xxx.
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: kjtrains on July 08, 2011, 09:50:37 PM
Quote
That is Outstanding Service- that can not be topped !

I can certainly vouch for the service of Seecamp having had a hammer to lock up;

Quote
Quote
Started to shoot a mag yesterday and fired the first rd and it jammed locking the hammer back.  The hammer stayed locked back.  Larry seemed to know exactly what was wrong and said, send it back, when I talked to him first thing this morning.  


Quote
Quote
Ahhh!  The Seecamp .380 ships tomorrow, all repaired, and will deliver Wednesday; has been repaired for a couple weeks now, just waiting for me to tell them when to ship.

Happy days are here!

Update:  The .380 did arrive on Wednesday, 8/11/10, with new grips, new springs, and three extra recoil springs; all is well.  

Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Reinz on July 08, 2011, 11:46:19 PM
Quote

Nah, you can see where i loaded the photo into Microsoft Paint, and copied and pasted a swatch of blank gun color over the last three digits of the serial number. It was 021xxx.

Wow, how did I miss that!

 ;D ;D  Do I feel like a dummy!  ;D
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: yankee2500 on July 09, 2011, 12:16:09 AM
Are you wearing an eye patch on the wrong eye ?  ;D

If thats your worst mistake for today your doing good. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Joe_from_NY on July 09, 2011, 12:22:53 AM
Quote
I've never seen a "blown up" Seecamp before.   :o
That kind of warranty service on a 20yo firearm is why Seecamp is know as a premier firearms manufacturer.

How about a picture of the repaired pistol just in the interests of gun pron.  :)

As requested (note the updated mag plate):

(http://www.seecamp.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/cracked_slide_BW_Medium.jpg)

(http://www.seecamp.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/2011_0106_005426AA_numbw.jpg)
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Joe_from_NY on July 09, 2011, 12:39:09 AM
Quote

I can certainly vouch for the service of Seecamp having had a hammer to lock up;

Yeah, i had the same hammer lock up problem. It seemed like the roll pin walked loose and jammed the hammer back.


(http://www.seecamp.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/Copy_of_CIMG2783_pin_drifted_1.JPG)

Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: Richard S on July 11, 2011, 03:33:22 PM
Quote
Are you wearing an eye patch on the wrong eye ?  ;D * * *

I just noticed that comment. As Molly used to say to Fibber, "T'aint funny, McGee!"  ;)
Title: Re: Karl Rohrbaugh: R9 not meant to handle 150 rou
Post by: yankee2500 on July 11, 2011, 06:32:14 PM
Sorry Richard. :-[