The Rohrbaugh Forum

Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: nase on October 10, 2009, 05:32:40 PM

Title: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: nase on October 10, 2009, 05:32:40 PM

So this is only my second trip to the range with my R9... my hand was slightly sore the first time, but I didn't notice this problem in particular.

I put 50 rounds through it today, and i really felt every one of them in the bottom of my trigger finger. The recoil just popped the trigger guard right against that knuckle. Am I doing something wrong?

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: tracker on October 10, 2009, 05:44:38 PM

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. It could just be your hand fit compatibility with the R9 or something simple like firing rapidly and the momentum of the trigger slams your knuckle against the trigger guard. You might try a slightly firmer trigger finger grip and a slower fire rate and see if you notice any difference. It has been mentioned here before but a very positive trigger pull is desirable on the R9.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: Quiet1 on October 10, 2009, 06:49:48 PM

As Tracker points out, there are lots of elements in the equation that causes the infamous "Trigger Finger Bite".

I know my following suggestion is "treating the symptom rather than the cause" but, I would suggest that on future trips to the range you wrap a BandAid, pad on the bottom, around the joint of your trigger finger.

I don't have a problem with trigger finger bite shooting the Pup but I sure do have it with my Seecamp .380 and the "old band-aid trick" works perfectly every time.  ;)

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: kjtrains on October 10, 2009, 08:47:03 PM

Quote

So this is only my second trip to the range with my R9... my hand was slightly sore the first time, but I didn't notice this problem in particular.

I put 50 rounds through it today, and i really felt every one of them in the bottom of my trigger finger. The recoil just popped the trigger guard right against that knuckle. Am I doing something wrong?

nase.  Welcome to the Forum.  Tracker and Quiet1 has said it well.  Firm grip and a very positive trigger pull are the key.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: nase on October 10, 2009, 11:13:18 PM

Ok, thanks for the replies. I'll try to be more careful about my grip and trigger pull... and I'll probably put on a bandaid next time I go to the range, if I can remember.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: yankee2500 on October 11, 2009, 12:58:11 AM

nase, welcome to the group, the posted suggestions are good ones.
 I find that putting my finger a little farther in the guard will also stop the problem, even though it is not the proper technique for good trigger control.
  I will shoot that way at SD distances at a silhouette target, not taking time for a good sight lineup, more of a point and shoot fashon.
 Because I don't think there will be time or presence of mind to worry about propper grip and form in most SD situations.
John

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: tracker on October 11, 2009, 01:03:25 AM

Also, in a self-defense situation the knuckle bump problem will not even be a factor.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: Brenden on October 11, 2009, 01:15:30 AM

nase,
Welcome to the forum!!
The band aid will help you on your 50 round sessions!!

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: theirishguard on October 11, 2009, 11:38:52 AM

nase, welcome to the forum and pup ownership. try shooting slower and pay attention to your grip and trigger pull as you shoot and make some adjustments as needed.  Tom

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: Richard S on October 11, 2009, 12:42:45 PM

nase:

Permit me also to welcome you to the Forum.

The only time I have ever run 50+ rounds through my R9 was during its first outing -- and I recall that my right hand started "complaining" after about the fifth magazine or so.

The R9 is the smallest and lightest pistol yet produced for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge, and I personally consider it to be the finest pocket pistol yet made. It is designed to be a close-quarters self-defense weapon. As such, having proven to myself that my R9 is fully reliable, I now carry it every day, taking care to keep it immaculately clean and properly lubricated, and running a magazine or two through it every now and then in order to maintain familiarity. For extended range work, I've got 1911s that I can shoot for as long as the ammunition lasts.

Good luck with your new masterpiece, and welcome again to the Forum.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: kanuist on October 11, 2009, 09:10:54 PM

Nase,  Welcome and Congratulations!

I had this same problem on my first outing with my R9.  On my second range trip, I tried adjusting my trigger finger.  I found that if I didn't insert it as far as normal, it wouldn't get bitten.

After a few more range sessions, my finger finds this sweet spot on its own.

Enjoy your R9.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: tracker on October 11, 2009, 09:22:59 PM

I think you are on to something; having short fingers I haven't noticed this particular problem but I can see it becoming an issue with someone who has large hands and/or long fingers. The trigger finger definitely tapers narrower toward the tip and wouldn't take up as much space as it would in the middle of the finger.  

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: P7Enigma on October 12, 2009, 02:07:18 PM

Had the same problem so I took a die grinder and cut the trigger guard off.




Welcommen to the board!

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: Quiet1 on October 12, 2009, 05:25:20 PM

Quote

Had the same problem so I took a die grinder and cut the trigger guard off.

Whooa!!!  Dude!!!  That really is "treating the cause not the symptom".

I would love to see a picture of your "De-Trigger-Guarded" R9!

How, (other than Very Carefully) and what do you use to conceal carry it now that it is sans trigger guard?     ;D

Inquiring minds want to know.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: tracker on October 12, 2009, 05:47:25 PM

How would you defend that one in court?

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: P7Enigma on October 12, 2009, 06:54:05 PM

Quote

Whooa!!!  Dude!!!  That really is "treating the cause not the symptom".

I would love to see a picture of your "De-Trigger-Guarded" R9!

How, (other than Very Carefully) and what do you use to conceal carry it now that it is sans trigger guard?     ;D

Inquiring minds want to know.

Yeah, I guess using the "die grinder" was a little bit overkill! ;D

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: tracker on October 12, 2009, 08:01:58 PM

You're good.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: kjtrains on October 12, 2009, 08:39:29 PM

And how!

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: slashsplat on October 18, 2009, 02:17:21 PM

I put strips of skateboard tape on the front and backstraps and it improved my overall grip a LOT.  Would now have the ability to select my trigger finger position...  Never had an issue with this, though.

Considered grinding off the trigger guard, as it is just extra weight, and I think I could BUMP FIRE if it were not there.  :o

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: tracker on October 18, 2009, 02:22:12 PM

Tape on the grips helps much also in addition to the front and back.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: mefly2 on October 21, 2009, 12:08:07 PM

Out of curiosity ... a photo of the die grinder job ... yeouch, that hurts more than the bruised finger!

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: tracker on October 21, 2009, 12:53:54 PM

I think he was just messin' with us.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: kjtrains on October 21, 2009, 02:26:59 PM

He was, and doing a good job at it.   ;D    ;D

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: P7Enigma on October 21, 2009, 06:50:37 PM

Quote

He was, and doing a good job at it.   ;D    ;D

Busted.... 8)

Unless I send the pic.... :o

Title: CRe: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: ACP on October 28, 2009, 07:48:13 PM

1. Cutting trigger guard off is indefensible.
2. Plaxico Buress needs company in jail.
3. Don't take an R9 without a trigger guard to a strip club.
4. Your knuckle ought not come in contact with the trigger guard if you shoot properly. Dedicate less trigger finger inside the trigger guard; pull between the end of your fingernail and the first joint.
5. Trigger pull advice is given as an instructor. In real life self defense circumstance you would not care about your knuckle; a point already made above. You should shoot my way for the sake of your knuckle and save a clip for real life self defense point shooting.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: MrsFosforos on October 28, 2009, 08:24:41 PM

If/when a mag extension is available for the R9, try putting one on. That 1/2 inch added to your grip will make a lot of difference in the control you will have over the gun. I don't have one for the R9, but have one on my seecamp and it does wonders to tame that little beast.

For most regular sized guns, we're taught to use the area between the tip of our index finger and first knuckle on the trigger; however if you look at the physics of it and consider the short distance between the grip and trigger -- you can see why there is a problem when trying that same trigger finger position with the smaller gun.

The length of your index finger usually travels parallel to the slide (on a normal size gun). You use the tip of your finger on the trigger and that maintains the stability of your index finger along the side of the slide and the only subsequent movement results in the tip of your finger on the trigger.

But when you try that with the shorten span of the Rorhbaugh, your index finger moves away from the side of the slide and finger tip creates a triangular gap between the slide and trigger (weakening your grip) and resulting in that trigger guard slap.

I insert my trigger finger a little deeper when using the R9 or seecamp.

Here are pics of the two grips -- its a seecamp, but applies to the R9 & demonstrates what I'm trying to say:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v710/isa4031/sm034.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v710/isa4031/sm033.jpg)

You can see I've lost some real estate on the grip of the first picture. Inserting my finger in a little deeper keeps the index finger stable along the side of the slide. I still only use the finger Tip to activate the trigger, it is just closer to the knuckle than a traditionl grip.  
I do not experience trigger guard slaps or any pain any more!

ETA: I'm still a novice shooter, and far from having the expertise of many on this forum, but I wanted to share this is what works for me.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: ACP on October 28, 2009, 08:48:02 PM

You may be a novice shooter but you write a compelling argument for trigger pull. I notice that my trigger pull is more contrived than natural because I make a point of using the point of my finger in the manner that both you and I describe.

However, when I point shoot, or multiple tap, (to replicate real life situation), my trigger finger travels further into the trigger guard; (right to left as I am right handed).

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: kjtrains on October 28, 2009, 08:57:53 PM

MrsFosforos and ACP.  Both of you make good points.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: BytorJr on October 28, 2009, 09:21:30 PM

As ACP says, between the end of the fingernail and the first joint (or line if you will) in your finger.  The only exception I know of to this rule is one I was taught when using a J-frame with 12 unruly pounds of pull and that was to use that first joint to pull the trigger back.  Some may agree or disagree with that, but it does seem to work quite well 10 meters and under.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: MrsFosforos on October 28, 2009, 09:31:00 PM

Quote

As ACP says, between the end of the fingernail and the first joint (or line if you will) in your finger.  The only exception I know of to this rule is one I was taught when using a J-frame with 12 unruly pounds of pull and that was to use that first joint to pull the trigger back.  Some may agree or disagree with that, but it does seem to work quite well 10 meters and under.

I can't remember what the trigger pull averages on the R9  - does anyone know off hand?

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: BytorJr on October 28, 2009, 09:40:06 PM

I think it's 8lbs, but it's smooth as "butta" and a J-frame is well, quite simply, not :).

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: ACP on October 28, 2009, 09:41:37 PM

I only know that the trigger pull on R9 is smooth. What the weight of the pull is, I honestly don't know. Someone on this forum is bound to know.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: kjtrains on October 28, 2009, 10:23:30 PM

R9 trigger pull is 11 lbs.  according to this article in American Rifleman.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/ArticlePage.aspx?cid=24&id=1932

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: MrsFosforos on October 29, 2009, 12:11:05 AM

Thanks, we've measured it before, I just couldn't remember.  I have shot a J Frame  S&W 642 & R9 & my Seecamp  .32 (which has about a 11lb trigger too). The seecamp is the worst of all of them -- it kicks like a mule!

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: ACP on October 29, 2009, 08:05:33 AM

Never owned a Seecamp which were always allocated, hard to find or priced outside what I was willing to pay for a .32.

For a long time the Walther PPK was my favorite gun due to size & legacy. I looked beyond the hammer bite because I got the accuracy I wanted and I loved the design of the gun.

When R9 came along, I never looked back. In my experience, the R9 has stout recoil but it is more comfortable than the NAA Guardian I owned because of size and ergonomics.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: kjtrains on October 29, 2009, 10:29:56 AM

I have a Seecamp .32 as well.  The kick doesn't bother me as I shoot a .454 Alaskan and a .454 Freedom Arms, also a Ruger .44 Mag; all of these are shot with one hand.  So the .32 is like a pea shooter compared to these.  I do like the Seecamp with its' all stainless finish.  Then there's the R9; what a pistol!

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: Richard S on October 29, 2009, 10:50:35 AM

Quote

Busted.... 8)

Unless I send the pic.... :o

And here, by popular demand . . . :  ;D

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/r9photoshopped.jpg)

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: kjtrains on October 29, 2009, 10:57:53 AM

Ingenuity at its' best!

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: P7Enigma on October 29, 2009, 12:03:22 PM

 ;D ;D ;D...

I knew you perps would see the method to my madness and follow suit!

Nice job on the "rematching" of the anodizing! ;D

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: theirishguard on October 29, 2009, 12:26:15 PM

ah, a Ranger pistol ;) :D   Tom

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: Richard S on October 29, 2009, 02:22:17 PM

It's really quick and helps keeps you alert when you carry it stuffed inside the pants at the "2:00 position." However, it's highly recommended that you wear Kevlar under armor and steel-toe boots when doing so.  ;)

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: kjtrains on October 29, 2009, 04:17:11 PM

Don't forget the Kevlar garloshes overshoes!   ;D    ;D

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: ACP on October 29, 2009, 07:39:46 PM

How about a folding trigger? Then we could have a "Paterson" R9.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: tracker on October 29, 2009, 07:42:03 PM

They could make 20 of them and really run the table on collectibility.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: kjtrains on October 29, 2009, 08:18:52 PM

A folding trigger, YES!  One that activates to the firing position when gun is leveled at the target.  Ingenious!

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: P7Enigma on October 30, 2009, 01:01:00 AM

What have I done...?
I've made a bunch of madmen outa you guys..!
Next we will be building the R9 with a cigarette case, lighter and pen!... Now where have I seen that before? 8)

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: ACP on October 30, 2009, 09:06:23 AM

Enigma,

Nothing is wrong with running the table on absurdity in this string. Given the president's foreign and domestic policies, we need some serious silly. It helps us get us through our daze.

Title: Re: trigger guard banging up my trigger finger
Post by: P7Enigma on October 30, 2009, 12:14:53 PM

Yeah, no crap....I stopped watching the news last Nov