The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: r9newbie on October 11, 2009, 03:44:23 PM
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I'm curious to hear from users who have tried carrying the R9s as a primary CCW piece... what you feel about the gun in this role, in your experience.
When I bought mine I was carrying a SW M&P340 snub as primary, and occasionally R9s as backup in the pants pocket (in an Uncle Mike's pocket holster).
I swore I wouldn't use the R9s as primary carry.
For weekend carry it's been the SIG P239 on the belt holster. But when I put the P239 on last week, it was just too bulky and heavy, and I tried the R9s as primary in a Bianchi clip-on IWB holster, but still riding outside the pants but under the belt. I haven't looked back -- night and day as far as comfort and concealment goes, compared to the P239. For the past week it's been the R9s alone (and a second loaded mag in the pocket).
For me it's now neck and neck with the snub for daily carry.
Why I initially didn't want the R9s as primary (mostly compared to the snub):
- lack of range time with it (easily solved... when my range re-opens anyway)
- reloads: even when not under pressure, the position in which to hold the R9s is not intuitive for me to release the Euro style mag catch. For some reason I have a mental block there. I mean a moment of real confusion. It takes 2 or even 3 repositions of my hands to figure it out, again, while not under life or death pressure. Sure training would help here but I'm uncomfortable with that style of reload, I don't even want to consider doing in for real.
- reliability: picky about ammo. Yes I have the "right" ammo now, and once you have it, it should be 100%, but this was never as much of a concern for me with other guns and that does carry some weight for me. With the snub, pull trigger and it goes off, never a FTE, and never needs a second hand to operate a slide to clear a jam or chamber a round, etc. FTF? Just pull trigger again.
- sights aren't as good as on my snub (tritium, bigger, and more contrast)
- grip. Snub with hogue just drops right into my hand like it was custom molded, and it's in ready position as gun is removed from holster.
- cartridge power: 9 mm is great, but the snub can shoot a .357 mag (I'd usually carry 38+P in first four chambers and a .357 in the fifth)
- the R9s isn't as quick out of the holster as the snub or SIG. This is obviously just a matter of finding a better holster though. My primary carry is always on the strong side OWB on the belt, but the R9s is the only holster I have with a thumb break snap, so it's a little slower -- so not a fair comparison but it's what I have now.
So why is the R9s lately my primary carry instead of the snub?
- Better concealment and comfort
- Reloading a snub revolver with a speed loader probably takes just as much time and effort as reloading the R9s with Euro style mag release. Might even be faster with the R9s as you don't have to eject cases first.
- R9s carries an extra round (or two... but there's so much compression on that mag spring when it's holding 6 that I just carry the default 6... one in chamber and 5 in mag). I may get over this as time goes on.
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If I can comfortably carry and conceal the P239, I'll always go with that, but for more stealthy carry it's the snub or R9s.
So what's the point? This: I find it interesting that the piece I swore would always be a designated backup piece is often what I now carry as a primary, with no backup.
The R9s seems to have a reputation for being a great backup piece. I'd love to hear from others what they think of the R9s as a primary carry piece -- experience, concerns, why or why you would not carry it in that role, what you've done to make it work, etc.
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My R9s has always been primary. I carry either in smartcarry, just off to the left of midline, pager pal ( with a cell phone) on weak side appendix, or in my tuckable IWB by HBE leatherworks, again weak side appendix, depending on what I have on. Welcome to the forum.
Benjamin
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It's my on-duty LEO backup gun, and my off-duty warm weather primary. I am comfortable enough in my abilities with it for my "routine" use in those capacities. Now, if we're going to Memphis...............
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Let's just say that my R9 is my "24/7 gun," which makes it often the "primary." Whenever I feel the need, I'll add either my P7 or a 1911 for the "primary" role, belted or IWB at the 4:00 o'clock position and covered by a jacket or vest. Even where open carry is permitted for permit holders, I elect always to carry concealed.
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R9 primary but sometimes I'll carry a sig for a day or two.
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I carry the R9 all the time as my primary gun. It sits in a IWB holster and is very comfortable.
I had some early problems with the mag release. I took some time at home with "no ammo" and practiced dropping the mag and loading a fresh one. It still isn't as easy as a traditional mag release, but I feel comfortable with it.
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When I carry my pup it is primary, and has always been in a pocket holster, I have a D.M. Bullard IWB but only used it two times. I'm not really an IWB guy, I have a Kramer IWB for my Colt New Agent and tried that a couple of times, then stopped using it. I prefer OWB and am waiting for my Rafter S
OWB to arrive, it should ship on Tuesday ;D.
John
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primary carry is the R9s ;D try a good pocket holster. Tom
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I have a SIG 239 as well but after having to "suit up" by running the holsterage on belts and whatnot vs the ease of just throwing the R9 into the pocket...well, I got lazy. As Richard and Deercop mentioned, unless I'm going to the Spin mountains or Memphis the R9 is "good" enough. In those "uncertain" areas of not knowing where I may be going, its an M8 riding in the Del Fatti or an M13 if its going to be Memphis. ;D
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When going into an uncertain area, I pack the .454 Alaskan in a Sour Dough Pancake Holster from Simply Rugged.com. Have never felt under gunned. However, very seldom go into an uncertain area.
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When going into an uncertain area, I pack the .454 Alaskan in a Sour Dough Pancake Holster from Simply Rugged.com. Have never felt under gunned. However, very seldom go into an uncertain area.
I tow my 105mm howitzer when I go into an uncertain area,
OH thats what kj said, only he has a fancy name for it, and removed the wheels. .454 Alaskan ;D
John
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It does look big to others! Only had to pull it once; didn't have to fire. ;D ;D
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> unless I'm going to the Spin mountains or Memphis the R9 is "good" enough.
I know what you mean about "suiting up" with the 239 on a belt holster... that part doesn't bother me much though -- what gets me is the weight and bulk. "Who's packing?" Easy answer.. you can see it.
True, you always need to consider the "mission" or the application or your risk of threats, in order to determine what and how to carry.
But as far as uncertain areas go, I always come back to this: BG confronting you doesn't give you any warning, regardless of how uncertain the area is. When you need to pull a gun the threat may already be confronting you -- you need to do it fast, not tuck a hand into a pocket, get a grip, try to wrestle it from pocket, separating it from pocket holster, etc. Your mileage may vary, but I've never found anything faster than "lift shirt, remove from OWB holster and present." By the time the first shot is off, if it were riding in the pocket, I'd still be trying to remove it from the pocket.
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Just my opinion r9newbie, but I don't think you'll get much older, if confronted, using that approach. If you're using a pocket holster, practice makes perfect. It also depends on the type of pocket holster. I want to save your life. If confronted, don't go pulling up your shirt. You are now shot.
Now, this is just my opinion. You do have a right to disagree. I do have experience with confrontation and won.
Do you?
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> Just my opinion r9newbie, but I don't think you'll get much older, if confronted, using that approch.
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> If confronted, don't go pulling up your shirt. You are now shot.
No problem with your opinion; I absolutely take no offense and welcome the discussion.
I'm not talking about "negotiating" -- if that's the case, the gun doesn't come out. The gun comes out when that's failed and it's life or death. Gun has no business being presented until then.
And when it comes to life or death, faster wins. I can brush my untucked shirt aside, remove gun and shoot faster than I can pull a gun from a pocket holster INSIDE a pocket and do the same. Practice helps, yes, but practice then also helps holster carry become faster. I'd still go with fastest and easiest.
The only advantages I can see to pocket carry:
1) better concealment
2) can walk with hand on gun in pocket without drawing attention
3) can make it look like you're reaching for your wallet and present gun instead. But for OWB holster, you reach for your wallet but before you can put hand in pocket, you present your gun. Problem solved.
Compare above to holster carry:
1) Concealment: pocket wins here, but for OWB, just make sure you keep it concealed :)
2) Hand in pocket: You can still do this with OWB holster carry. Walk with hand in pocket, which keeps strong hand in proximity of the holster, and if confronted for wallet, can still sweep hand straight up and unholster gun in one movement. Practice required, yes.
3) Reaching for wallet but presenting gun: I see no advantage here for OWB carry. Pocket wins.
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I still say fast access wins. Reaching for "wallet" is a good tactical move, but cut to the chase: if you're going to present a gun, do it faster.
> I do have experience with confrontation and won. Do you?
No, but irrelevant. One successful encounter with pocket carry doesn't invalidate the possibility of a faster, more direct solution. That said, I'm glad it worked...!
I'm not dumb enough to say I don't believe you can present from the pocket as fast as you could from a holster. After all I swore nobody could do what Miculek does with a revolver. Look at the guys who carry for profession: It's on the strong side, in a holster. If pocket carry were faster or better, they'd be doing it by now... after all these years.
Yes, no doubt pocket carry has some DEFINITE strategic advantages. Speed and ease of access isn't one of them.
If you have your hand in your pocket, yes, that helps... but back to my original point: The bad guy is a surprise; you're not always walking around with your hand in your pocket. It just doesn't work that way. The BG doesn't give you warning, and when he comes, it's a gamble as to whether or not your hand is in your pocket, and there goes much of (though not all of) the strategic advantage.
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You make some good points. It really comes down to each his own. What makes you feel comfortable if there is an encounter.
You are right about one confrontation may not be the same as the next.
How about Bob Munden in this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uca_9XTwcxI&feature=related
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Sometimes primary, sometimes backup.
It all depends upon how I'm dressed.
Regardless, it's always two guns.
Good Luck
Reinz
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> It really comes down to each his own. What makes you feel comfortable if there is an encounter.
Right on. Comfort is absolutely key. If you're not comfortable with what or how you shoot, you end up at a HUGE disadvantage, and possibly a fatal one. Same is true for anything -- driving a car, riding a motorcycle, playing an instrument, etc. Comfort is confidence, and confidence wins. This is why we practice.
> How about Bob Munden in this link:
Speechless.
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After reading the discussions on carry methods I am thinking how fortunate we are to have this opportunity to have our weapons and to voice how best to defend ourselves.
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> After reading the discussions on carry methods I am thinking how fortunate we are to have this opportunity to have our weapons and to voice how best to defend ourselves.
Agreed. All sharing knowledge. It's great. And to have a forum so specific to the Rohrbaugh is equally great. Carrying the R9s isn't like carrying anything else. Different size, grip, mag release, etc... this gives us the chance to learn from people who are actually experienced in this specific firearm.
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If this were Australia, Canada, or England we would not be having these differences of opinion--and those are the civilized countries.
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> If this were Australia, Canada, or England we would not be having these differences of opinion--and those are the civilized countries.
True. Even in America though, we seem to have to battle up to the Supreme Court to keep the right.
When I moved to Maine I was glad to see in the Maine state Constitution, Article I, Section 16, "Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned."
Hope it stays that way.
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My son went to college in Brunswick and I observed to a waitress one morning that Texans and Maineiacs seemed to be curiously similar. She confirmed that by saying the climates are both extreme, the natives are friendly but untrusting of most outsiders, and that both states have pioneer backgrounds and spirit. She had lived in Corpus Christi before Brunswick--made my whole day.
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> climates are both extreme, the natives are friendly but untrusting of most outsiders, and that both states have pioneer backgrounds and spirit. She had lived in Corpus Christi before Brunswick--made my whole day.
Fantastic. And very true.
Had the pleasure of doing a job in Texas for a few days. Two things were very clear: 1) beautiful country; friendliest people, but by no means in a naive way.
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As a general rule I'm never more than 100 ft from a 45. be it a 1911, a Beretta Px4, or an XD (usually the Beretta becuase it's 100% reliable and is the lightest and can be strapped on hte body, albeit, the least accurate).
I purchased the R9 to have something to get me from wherever I am standing to the 45, which gets me home to the 12 ga and .223 Rem.
The R9 goes on the person (IWB or pocket).
The 45 goes in the car (in an UTS vertical rig out of view and locked up).
The mossberg 835, AR-15, and handful of 45s are in the safe and can be found there if things get really ugly.
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If this were Australia, Canada, or England we would not be having these differences of opinion--and those are the civilized countries.
Tracker is absolutely correct. And if this were like some of the uncivilized places now recognized as sovereign countries in which I have had the opportunity to "enjoy misery," we would be individually traced and hunted down and have what might best be described as "thugs in uniform" attempt to confiscate our weapons for their personal use or disposition.
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Yes, we are lucky our government does not maintain lists of who has CCW's and have purchased firearms...... Hmmm, why do they need that info? :)
:)
Chief
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R9 in cargo pocket in a DeSantis whenever my pants are on. Glock 22C (.40) in shoulder pouch with wallet, etc. Always two guns.
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Last Thursday, I was in a local shop owned by a young friend of mine and his wife. My friend proudly informed me that, at my urging, he had taken and passed the course for obtaining a carry permit and had just purchased a Ruger LCP .380 and one of the Uncle Mike IWB holsters as his first rig. His usual mode of dress at work is an untucked shirt over matching trousers with his shop logo on the shirt pocket.
I had urged my friend to get his carry permit because he and his wife close up their shop after dark during the winter months and usually have the day's receipts with them to drop into their bank's night deposit box. I had also given him a 2009 catalog of handguns for his use in selecting a firearm -- recommending, of course, that he give particular attention to one of the Rohrbaughs.
My friend said that, although he had wanted a Rohrbaugh, he just couldn't afford one at this time. He also said that the only .380 ACP ammunition he had been able to find was one box of FMJ but that his FFL had promised to let him know if some JHPs became available. I asked him what brand of ammunition he had purchased. He said, "It's here in the spare clip," and handed it to me. I smiled, gently explained the difference between a "clip" and a "magazine," extracted the top cartridge and looked at the stamping. Surely enough -- it was that coprrosive foreign "stuff" which I wouldn't use in any weapon unless as a last resort. I reinserted the cartridge into the magazine and handed it back to him with the comment, "It's made overseas."
My friend then asked me what was the "best method" for carrying a concealed weapon. I thought for a moment and replied: "I do not believe that there is any single best method for carrying your weapon concealed. The question is what you find with experience to be the best method for you under the conditions in which you spend your time each day. That may take some time and experimentation with various carry modes. Meanwhile, if your current IWB rig is comfortable, it should serve you well as you become more accustomed to the practice of carrying a concealed weapon."
As I was driving home from my friend's shop I couldn't get my mind off of that foreign "stuff" he was carrying in his new Ruger. So . . . when I got home I went up to my gun room, opened the safe, looked far in the back, pulled out a box of .380 ACP Remington Golden Saber BJHPs, and drove back to my friend's shop. As I walked in, he asked, "Did you leave something?"
"No," I said. "I brought something." At which, I handed him the box of Golden Sabers and said, "Christmas comes a little early this year."
I turned and left him standing there in his shop, speechless, with his mouth wide open. But I was smiling. 8)
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Very nice Richard! Very nice indeed you old Santa you. :)
BTW, the Golden Sabres perform very well in the LCP so they should be a reliable and effective self defense round for your young friend.
"Good" on you!
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Great story and you are a true friend, indeed.