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While I am new to the forum...let me first say I think the forum, the posts I have read, and the interaction I have had with a few members have been great...I think the r9 is a great gun...I read the review yesterday on the forum and for the most part I thought it was a good review...I dont agree with all of his assessments especially about reliability...I believe the r9 can be and is a very reliable weapon with some caviots...first of all in my humble opinion this gun is for concealed personal protect...not a lot of fun to put a lot of rounds thru...After qualifiing with it I was worn out. I carry it as a backup and ultra concealed weapon when common sense or dress dictates nothing larger....I have read about alot of the members trying different ammo...the jams and malfunctions...I wonder if some of the malfunctions are caused by limp wrists ,fatigue and last of all a worry of a malfunction...I was taught in swat many years ago pick ammo that works, stay with it , believe in the ammo your weapon and your ability...remove any and all doubts out of your mind because god forbid if you have to use it and you dont trust it , it may really malfunction because of your mistrust or fear of malfunction ...to save your life or someone elses the weapon has to be an extension of yourself...I hope none of the members ever have to experience a god forbid but trust me it happens real fast and if you think and dont react the party is over...carrying a weapon and having to draw and use it are two different things...I hope I dont offend the members of this great forum with my post but I guess I,ll take the chance if it helps save one of your lifes...charlie
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Charlie,
You do not offend me in the least and the words you say are important. I have owned (2) R9s and stovepipes have been an issue.
I am a Certified Pistol Instructor, have trained with LEOs at local, state and federal levels and pride myself in being teachable; I never want to be a "know-it-all".
I LOVE the recoil from the R9 but hate the stovepipes.
The R9s I have owned have had stovepipe issues such that I carried the R9 much and shot it very little. My third R9 (Stealth) is on order. Ask yourself this question: why am I trying a third R9? Because I LOVE the gun despite my experiences.
This time around, however, I am determined to use only high test/recommended ammo which, in fairness to Rohrbaugh, I have failed to do in the past. Finding premium ammo is another story which, at present, is not easy.
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Charlie. Welcome to the Forum. Your words are well taken!! :) :)
Ken
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Charlie, seems like good commen sense thoughts to me. Tom
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Charlie, Welcome and Thanks. ACP 3 times a charm. Dan
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Dan: Thanks for your encouragement. The R9 has all the charm, whereas I have none.
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acp I thought you were right on with your comments...experience dictates except in the movies most serious gunfights take place within a very short distance...and usually are over one way or another in seconds...As Im sure you are aware ,after the first time you pull or use your weapon you are never the same person...I believe its important to have good ammo that works...as you are aware this weapon due to it design and size is not ment to use swat loads...I found this gun works great with 115 grain...I wouldnt use anything more potient...as I said in my previous post this gun is ment to save your life if all else fails...I actually dont like 9mm about 10 years ago a bad guy was shot (not by me) although I was there...by a deputy with a 9mm ...it took the guy 17 or 20 seconds to realize he was dead ...during that time he shot 2 additional people...very bad situation...thats why my cal of choice is 45...I also saw a guy (drug dealer) a few years ago get shot with a .380 from about 25 yds away ...he had on several sweatshirts and a heavy leather jacket and the round never penetrated his body go figure that one...when I can I carry a kahr mp45 black with night sights 3.1 barrel, my wife can shoot it accurately and I shoot it with one hand...but I still carry my rohn r9 as a 3rd backup or when concealment dictates one weapon...
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Clarman:
I can't tell you how valuable your contributions are to this forum. Most of us, like me, prepare for worst case scenario with a gun we cherish. (I concur with your .45 comments). However, you have been there and done that and bring authenticity to this forum for which I am grateful.
There are .380 fatalities just like there are people shot by .45 who survive. But, the numbers tend to accrue along the guidelines that your expert testimony suggests
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thx Im certainly not serpico or whomever but over the last 30 yrs I had many experiences most Id like to forget but many with a happy outcome...police officers are generaly disliked by the public except when the public needs them...the things I did didnt require a uniform and I didnt have that much contact with the public but I saw what my friends went thru...for the most part many of us sit comfortable in our lives and have no idea how violent our society can be...
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I think you are being modest and thank you for your service.
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clarman:
Thank you for your service in law enforcement and welcome to the Forum and the growing community of R9 owners.
I also am a strong believer in the .45 ACP cartridge and have been since a benevolent government issued me my first (well worn) 1911 nearly 50 years ago. As a grizzled old "Mustang" major with a battlefield commission in Korea once told me, "Son, you hit an enemy center mass with a .45, he's goin' down and he ain't gettin' up.!"
I put my name in the hopper for a Rohrbaugh .45 as soon as I learned the model was on Karl's and Eric's drawing board. In the meantime, my R9 rides in my right-front pocket -- and this usually rides IWB at my 4:00 o'clock during the day and is always by my bed with a tac light at night:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/colt1991a1withlasermax.jpg)
Stay safe!
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Richard:
If an intruder enters your household do you blind them with the finish on your 1911 as a warning shot or do you just shoot them?
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I couldnt agree more with everyone...years ago I made a mistake and allowed myself to get shot with a small cal round .22 long rifle ammo from a walther tph...during a struggle the round entered almost point blank in the palm of my hand and exited thru the other side ...I felt a tremendus rush of energy and even though bleeding like a stuffed pig was able to grab the guy with my other hand...it didnt hurt it just pissed me off...afterwards at the hospital they blocked my arm and spent about 2 hrs saving my hand and fingers... the surgon was a friend of mine and we talked while he put me back together...he was a gun advocate and kept telling me how lucky I was that it was a small cal...he said if it had been a 45 I prob would have lost most or all of my hand...the real point is the small cal didnt stop me from doing what I had to do ...just like shooting a bad guy with a 380 or 9mm wont necessarily end a situation and then it may not end as quickly as you want it to...
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Clarman:
I am glad that your experience was benign. I have never been shot and don't plan on it anytime soon. I was in the military and know the consequence of gunfire but that is different from actually being shot.
Was the perpetrator punished or am I now paying his mortgage?
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punished...like I said in my earlier post sometimes things happen quickly...I got lucky I could have gotten killed...but the point is I never felt pain just a warm feeling (blood) a tremendous rush of energy...a big round would have gotten my attention to say the least...thats why I prefer a 45 big punch and less volacity...9mm is like the energizer bunny it just keeps going....to those of you who keep the gun in the bedroom dont use hollow points use a round that will flatten when it hits drywall and not go into another room where wifey or kids might be...In our bedroom I keep a f&n five seven...with non armour piercing ammo ...a great weapon with no recoil perfect for being woken from sleep to find someone in your house.....many years ago in school having to shoot a robust weapon when suffering from sleep depervation really affected your accuracy and got your attention...from experience coming out of a deep sleep youre going to be much more accurate using a weapon with light recoil...thats why I wouldnt keep the r9 in the bedroom unless I had no other choice
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Hello All
Nice to be back.
Just have a quick question charlie in regards to your last statement, by the way I'm glad your incident worked out the way it did. I thought the F&N is similar to using a rifle but not familiar with that gun, as for not using hollow point rounds in the house would they not tend to flatten out more then say a ball style round? I usually keep either my 38 or r9 at my head at night but would like to buy another gun for the house and blame you guys! ;D
Gary
Ret. P.D.
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the 5x7.5 round does look like a rifle shell...infact secret service use the rifle with suppessor among other weapons because of its small size and short barrel...the handgun and rifle are extremely accurate...several years ago our swat snippers rejected the rifle as they felt the round started to fall out of the air after about 150 yards...I disagreed but not my call...f&n actually developed these weapons for the military and law enforcement but they really caught on with the public...I owned a rifle without suppressor for a short time...we used to shoot it after training at the range...lots of fun and very quiet...of course we used amour piercing rounds which as you know the public cant buy...I do keep a full mag of amour p rounds near the 5x7 but Id never think of using those rounds in the house unless I had no other choice...I like your 38 choice I guess the best home protection weapon is short shotgun with hand grip but kind of hard to hide...wifey not crazy about shotgun next to bed...I keep one of those in closet nearby...as to my comment about ammo Im no expert but common sense tells me to use a round that stops after it hits something or someone my five seven uses a round with a teflon tip that not only flattens but goes back into the round on impact...the five seven is becoming very popular with police around the country as backup gun and in rare instances as carry gun as you know uniformed officers carry what their dept dictates...swat,undercover , and tact have a little more leeway but everyone has to qualify with any weapon they carry...I would only consider using the r9 at very close range...Im not going to aim it Im going to pull it and shoot it as an extension of my arm...someone breaks into my house Im gonna have wifey and kids lock themselves in call 911....meanwhile Im gonna put on the extra vest I keep behind the headboard grab the fiveseven keep the lights off and go hunting until either I find the guy or help shows up...and if someone is in the house they better hope help shows up before I find them...go to gun shop and shoot a five seven no recoil great gun...only disadvantage is its size (not small)
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The FN Five Seven is a great round but the handgun makes the glock look pretty. I did own one, however, and sold it.
I still have the P90 bullpup carbine in semi auto.
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Charlie. Good information!! :) :)
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I understand your thoughts...but everyone who doesnt care about the larger frame size loves the 19 round capacity and the no recoil aspect of this weapon...when I walk into gun stores I am seeing the owners and guys working there carrying this weapon on their side...frankly the capacity means nothing to me..if I cant get it done it 2-3 shots Im in trouble anyway...I still love the gun its fun to shoot and very accurate...
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Richard:
If an intruder enters your household do you blind them with the finish on your 1911 as a warning shot or do you just shoot them?
;D
Clark Custom Guns and Accurate Plating & Weaponry did give her a little "bling" factor, didn't they?
Actually, in the unfortunate event that an intruder enters my house, my routine will be much like that which "clarman" describes. As for the "blinding" part, I expect to rely on 225 lumens from a SureFire M3 CombatLight do that job as well as identify the threat and then let the LaserMax red dot find its spot. After that . . . well . . . whatever is required under the circumstances.
Over the years, I've had two attempted nighttime home invasions, both of which -- fortunately -- I was able to detect and stop with only a show of force before the perps even got inside. (That type of resolution certainly does cut down on the amount of after-action paperwork. ;) )
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Sure did!! Exceptional!! :) :)
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another thought with vertually no recoil shooting this weapon has no muzzle flip it sits in your hand quietly...I dont have real large hands and this gun is extremely comfortable to shoot...almost like shooting a rifle on a tripod...the fiveseven is double action with duel safetys...I shove it down the back of my pants when I take it out...for many years I carried my trusted 45 cocked and locked...but when I started carrying other weapons as backup the dept amourar(weapons expert and gunsmith) strongly recomended that we only carry one system...single action or double action action ect...train with it rely on it so it was second nature...we disagreed until one day the swat commander was playing with his new hk p7 squeezecocker when he accidently let pressure of the squeeze and the gun discharged an he had to replace his car windshield....good lession...the moral is what ever you guys use stay with the same system so if you need your weapon you dont make a mistake because you are using different systems...you need to be used to triggerpull ect...
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As someone who had a career in manufacturing and production, I do marvel at the five seven from a technological standpoint. They have a patented system that fuses plastic with metal. And, the slide is metal formed instead of cnc machined from a billet.
The cartridge, capacity and accuracy of the five seven is conspicuously great. However, it is still a very ugly gun.
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To borrow a line used by one of my old fraternity brothers trying to fix me up on a blind date with his sister back in college, ". . . but she has a great personality." ;)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/FNFive-Seven.jpg)
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I dont disagree but a great gun nontheless...it grows on you
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One more time, my Brothers, great cartridge, great...oh never mind
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I have always liked many different guns but only try and buy what I will carry and be similar to each other. I have my g-19 which was my service gun along with 38 SW back up, once I could buy other guns than I went with a Taurus PT-145 because it was compact 45 with similarities to the glock; and of course found the r-9s which is carried 50% the time splitting with the 38 airlight. I have always wanted a 1911 but since I won't carry it I don't see the purpose of having it. NY is a tuff state to carry and must be concealed. I like the idea of the FN and as a house gun does not look to bad and still able to be carried if so choose. Uh oh starting to get the itch to buy another gun. ;D
G
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I dont disagree but a great gun nontheless...it grows on you
clarman:
So did my fraternity brother's sister. It didn't last, but she did have a great personality -- as well as some other desirable . . . attributes. ;D
Seriously, though, that FN is one fine weapon -- and I have a soft spot for FNs. Although it is now a "safe queen," this FN Browning 1922 bearing stamps showing that it was issued to the German Luftwaffe in WWII is one of my prized possessions:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/fn-browning191132acp.jpg)
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Until reading this thread I was unaware of the FN Five Seven. I have done some research, watched some U-Tube videos, and I find that I WANT ONE!!!!!!
Rick
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Go for it, Rick. As far as we know, we each have only one trip on this third rock from the sun. 8)
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No seller's remorse. Gun performed well and I moved on.
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Go for it, Rick. As far as we know, we each have only one trip on this third rock from the sun. 8)
Yes, and I have only one wife this past 35 years who, like a lot of people these days, is on a frugality kick. Just a few weeks ago I purchased a new revolver, an S&W Performance Center Model 627. The double action trigger is smooth and light. The single action trigger gives new meaning to the instruction to not put your finger on the trigger til your ready to fire. I love it. Now I have to find a way to justify another purchase. It will not be easy.
Rick
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clarman:
So did my fraternity brother's sister. It didn't last, but she did have a great personality -- as well as some other desirable . . . attributes. ;D
Seriously, though, that FN is one fine weapon -- and I have a soft spot for FNs. Although it is now a "safe queen," this FN Browning 1922 bearing stamps showing that it was issued to the German Luftwaffe in WWII is one of my prized possessions:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/fn-browning191132acp.jpg)
Richard! I have a Browning 1922 .32 like yours only mine is in blue. I was wondering if this has a good value, not that I would sell it, but just wondering.
And Charlie! The FiveSeven, I, too, had never heard of it until this thread. I am definitely interested. I'm going searching. Thanks to all for their input on this weapon. Found the ammo on Sportsmans's Guide for $20.30 Club price, Hornady 40 gr. current production, SS197SR, muzzle velocity, 2,034 fps, muzzle energy, 367 ft.-lbs. 50 per box.
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Standard Catalog of Military Firearms suggests value of 1922 Browning at $450.00. Richard's gun would be substantially higher due to provenance.
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Thanks ACP!! I inherited the Browning and its just been a drawer. :) :)
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There is a saying in the antique/collector's world; "you can't sell sentiment". However, heirlooms are what you keep.
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kjtrains:
ACP's post reflects my own understanding of current market value for the M1922 pistols. Thousands of them had been produced for the civilian and international market prior to the Nazi invasion of Belgium. After the Nazis occupied Belgium, the M1922 was produced in larger numbers than any other firearm at the FN plant, with much of that production being issued to the Luftwaffe. Most of the M1922 pistols were blued, but a limited number were given a nickel plating such as that one of mine. Following the war, FN resumed production of the M1922, and the pistol was used by various West German police agencies and various agencies of the French government.
As you will have undoubtedly experienced for yourself, the M1922 is easily broken down for cleaning but can be a real "monkey puzzle" to reassemble. Mine was presented to me as a gift by my brother-in-law, who obtained it from the estate of a man who had brought it home from WWII. When he gave it to me, we were sitting at his kitchen table drinking coffee and "swapping lies." I had never held a Model 1922 before, but since I knew it had been designed by John Browning and I had learned in the Army to field strip and reassemble a 1911 in a matter of minutes, I figured that I would show off a little by field stripping the 1922 right there on the kitchen table.
Well . . . the pistol came apart easily enough, but I hadn't figured on that striker mechanism and the firing pin sitting there in its toggle ready to launch. My brother-in-law just sat there with a smile on his face as he watched me "eating humble pie." I finally got the piece back together again, but not before once having to go hunting for the firing pin spring across the room on the kitchen floor.
If you haven't seen this before, here is a link to the web site review when the M1922 was Cruffler's gun of the month:
http://www.cruffler.com/historic-may01.html
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Richard!
Thanks for the article! I haven't seen that before.
I, too, had the same experience with everything flying apart. I turned the nose of the barrel and everything went. I picked up the pieces, started trying to put them back together and couldn't get the barrel to lock into place.
I finally took all the pieces, sat down in front of the TV, and just kept trying. I thought, after a long time, there must be a slot in the frame for the collar in the barrel to rotate into. Sure enough, there it was. Everything went back together perfectly. Thanks again!! :) :)
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kjtrains:
Here's another link -- just in case you lose a spring in the carpet one day. ;)
http://www.e-gunparts.com/productschem.asp?chrMasterModel=0630z1922
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Hey Richard! I somehow missed your last post on this thread. I did lose the slide extension catch. Didn't know what I was going to do about that.
This "Gun Parts" Article will do the job! Many thanks!! :) :)
Ken