The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: UpOn2Wheels on January 12, 2008, 08:43:18 PM
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Second trip to the range today, and it raised some big concerns about my pup:
1) Repeated failure to fire when the trigger was squeezed. If I'd quickly work the trigger, the pup had no issues. Ammo was FMJ, 115 grain UMC (not the Gold Dot recommended). Out of 50 rounds I'd estimate that I had 6 FTFs; not good, and potentially the difference between life and death in a defensive situation.
My first range visit yielded no FTFs, even on crappy range ammo.
2) When I took the gun apart to clean it, the amount of metal shavings and flakes was staggering. In addition, the steel barrel appears to be beating the crap out of the aluminum frame. The frame trough the barrel rides in is clearly nicked, scraped and gouged from the movement of the barrel. Is this normal? Is this acceptable?
Before I e-mail Eric or send the gun back for inspection, I wanted to get some other user feedback. I realize that the R9 is meant for defensive carry and not "normal" range use, but I won't carry a gun I can't train with.
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UMC? Why?
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I hate to say this as Remington(UMC and Peters) is only about 45 miles away from me. Anything from Remington is crap. Stay with Federal or Winchester or some of the other foreign brands like Fiochi and Sellier and Bellot.
Mike
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UMC? Why?
I have a bunch laying around. My Ruger P85 eats it with no problems, and my Glock 36 has no FTFs with the UMC .45.
Ammo issue aside, what about the metal chips and frame impacts? Long term, this can't be good.
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UMC has been known to have the problem with hard primers,and there have been other pups that have also experienced this..Try the WWB for practice..
Your going to have some wear,some have more than other's,and it should stop..
This is perfectly normal,although there have been a couple of instance's noted of excess wear-pics are someplace here if a search is done..
IMO,I would clean and lube,get some proper feed for the pup-GDHPs,STHPs,WWB..See how things run for you then..
BTW-Welcome to the forum,looking forward to hear how things work out for you..
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Can you take some good pics for us of this problem? I don't know if you have a nice digital camera, but if you do, I'd be interested in seeing this wear.
Thanks and good luck.
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UMC has been known to have the problem with hard primers,and there have been other pups that have also experienced this..Try the WWB for practice..
Your going to have some wear,some have more than other's,and it should stop..
This is perfectly normal,although there have been a couple of instance's noted of excess wear-pics are someplace here if a search is done..
IMO,I would clean and lube,get some proper feed for the pup-GDHPs,STHPs,WWB..See how things run for you then..
BTW-Welcome to the forum,looking forward to hear how things work out for you..
Thanks Brenden - good info on the UMC ammo. Next range visit I'll stick to the GDHPs and see how things turn out. I also noticed at teardown that the grip screws were loose - not loose enough to CAUSE a trigger issue, but maybe loose enough to contribute to one.
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Can you take some good pics for us of this problem? I don't know if you have a nice digital camera, but if you do, I'd be interested in seeing this wear.
Thanks and good luck.
Will do next time I tear the pup down. My camera has a macro setting so I should be able to get decent pictures if I can light them properly.
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over all length is important in this small pistol. Using recommended ammo should help. Wear will stop in time, don't fret. Use blue lock tight on grip screws will help keep them tight. Look forward to seeing your pictures. Tom
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Using UMC is a bad idea -- could certainly be some length issues -- I've had UMC where the bullets were loose/set back in the case, etc -- my one and only box (of 250 in 45 ACP) that I ever bought.
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Never had a problem with UMC in 45. Shot probably 700 rounds of the stuff. UMC is Filthy, it makes WWB look like Speer or Hornady clean!!!
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(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/Bikeguy/R9FrameSmall.jpg?t=1200270272)
You can see the dimples on the sides of the "trough" below the frame rails. This was caused by the barrel floating and impacting the frame.
Cause? My recoil spring. I replaced it tonight, and the replacement spring was about 1/8" longer. :o
I've got four more on order with Rohrbaugh, so I'll post pics as soon as I get more replacement springs.
Next trip to the range I'll shoot 115 grain Gold Dots only, and I'll post my results. Thanks for all the help!
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Heck, that looks fairly gouged (dimpled perhaps is a better word) to me. But let's here what others say.
It almost looks like polymer paint that's been rubbed off, but I can see from the bottom most area that those are pretty deep. I wonder if that will cause undo friction or actually stiction?
Thanks for the snapshot!
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UO2W,
Nice photo.
That type of wear is indeed unusual.
I personally would send it back to Rohrbaugh. Heavy wear on 'break in' is not unusual but I am a bit concerned by the type of wear you are experiencing.
I know it is a pain in the butt but Rohrbaugh will make everything right.
Mike
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Hey all
Ive had what I thought is normal wear on my pup.
It seemed to have goten beaten up the first few time to the range. It has at this point done it's own self clearencing, lack for a better word. After reading a few posts about this sort of thing I have felt it is normal but mabey it is also on the extream side. :-/
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd131/IDMLLC/100_1694.jpg)
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I'm sure no expert, but I'd say that's "normal" from what I've read. That' obviously from the Lug of the barrel. Not near as bad as the other one though.
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This wear should stop after a certain point-if not give the R Bros a call,and they will help you out..
Here is an old thread -2005-about similiar wear..
Old Thread (http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1120281702;start=0)
Hope it helps..
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That looks like Candidate #2's problem. The original pic doesn't look the same and looks more severe. Brenden, do you concur?
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It is hard for me to tell from a pic for sure,but it does' look different than the other..
If it is a truly gouged frame than do not shoot it and contact Maria at Rohrbaugh..
If it is the anodized material only coming off,I would clean it up,lube it up,and carry on..
My .02 cents..
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Bryce,
The wear on your gun is entirely normal and actually looks pretty good. It is the spots that appear to be gouges on the photo of gun #1 that I think are not normal.
Mike
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Spoke to Maria at Rohrbaugh on Monday, and gave her the details on my pup. I referred her to the pictures in this thread, and she advised that she'd pass the information on to Mr. Rohrbaugh.
Maria left a message for me today, saying that they had reviewed the images, with the following findings:
1) The metal flakes encountered at teardown are from spent round brass, and are nothing to worry about.
2) The wear on the frame is caused by the barrel impacting the frame, possibly made worse by brass fragments from shell casings.
3) Their advice was to change ammo and not worry about shooting the gun.
I left another message for Maria today, just asking her to confirm that they reviewed the picture of MY frame, and not the picture posted by IDP. In my estimation, there is a huge difference between the two - IDP's wear is normal, and nothing to be concerned about. I still want to hear, from the factory, that my gun (with the dimpling on the frame) is safe to shoot.
I am, unfortunately, somewhat disapponted with Rohrbaugh's customer service. Maria is kind enough to return my calls, but she can only relate the information given to her by someone else. A five minute conversation with Karl Rohrbaugh (or someone else with manufacturing and firearms knowledge) would go a long way towards easing my concerns.
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UpOn2Wheels,
I can give you some information that you are concerned about. I can reassure you that your gun is safe to shoot. The wear you have will not effect safety at all, I was just concerned about the functioning of the gun.
Safe, absolutely. I have been astounded myself that there have been NO frame failures I have ever heard of and I have been here quite a while. The R9 frame has had no failures due to design or materials that I have heard of, ever.
Mike
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UpOn2Wheels,
I can give you some information that you are concerned about. I can reassure you that your gun is safe to shoot. The wear you have will not effect safety at all, I was just concerned about the functioning of the gun.
Safe, absolutely. I have been astounded myself that there have been NO frame failures I have ever heard of and I have been here quite a while. The R9 frame has had no failures due to design or materials that I have heard of, ever.
Mike
Thanks Mike - I appreciate your feedback!
I'll get to the range over the weekend and feed the pup a box of GDHPs, then post a range report and a teardown report.
I should be getting the replacement recoil springs by then, and I'll post "old" and "new" pics. My original recoil spring had between 80 - 120 rounds worth of usage, and it was about 1/8" shorter than the replacement.
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Epilogue: At my request, Rohrbaugh again reviewed the pictures of my dimpled frame and assured me the gun was safe to shoot. Went to the range today, and shot GDHP 115 grain exclusively. I'm happy to report no FTFs, and at teardown found the following:
1) Virtually NO metal shavings inside the gun
2) The dimpling had been dramaticaly reduced, no doubt polished by the action of the barrel
I'm still waiting for my replacement springs, but will post follow up pictures at some point that show the "before and after" frame and "new vs. old" recoil springs.
In summary, I will now shoot GDHPs exclusively and have no further concerns about carrying my pup. Thanks to all for their feedback!
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Good news. Thanks for the update.
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UpOn 2 Wheels,Welcome to the forum. Use Quality Ammo and your pup will serve you well. Dan