The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: harrydog on September 13, 2005, 04:32:21 PM
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I just got back from the first range session with my new R9S and I have to say, I'm somewhat discouraged.
I shot a box of 124gr Speer Gold Dots and a box of Winchester white box - 70 rounds total.
Recoil was sharp but not excessive. No problem there.
Out of the 70 rounds I had 8 or 9 FTF where the nose of the bullet would lodge against the top side of the chamber. It happened with both the Speer and the Winchesters almost once every mag.
I feel certain that I wasn't limp wristing. I was making a conscious effort to maintain a very firm grip. I've been shooting for over 30 years, but I'm not vain enough to think that it's not possible I was doing something wrong. Can't imagine what though.
I did notice that racking the slide to chamber a round was not very smooth.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.
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Did you use both magazines ? If so, did you notice if the problem occured with one or both of the mags.?
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RJ, yes it happened with both magazines.
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HD - bummer! Is/was your R9 well-lubed? - it sounds as though your slide may not be returning to battery as quickly as it should - especially if you noticed that racking the slide was a bit rough. I would try cleaning the gun thoroughly and then using something like Superlube or one of the other high quality lubes frequently discussed here - http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=Cleaning;action=display;num=1092897604. Then hand cycle the slide a few hundred times or so before your next range visit.
If you still feel the slide is a bit rough after your next range outing one little trick you can do is to disassemble the entire gun - remove all lube, then apply some Flitz to the slide, rails, and contact points - reasssemble and hand cycle the slide again another hundred times or so. Then carefully remove all of the Flitz and relube, reassemble, and try it again.
Also, make sure the spring is placed exactly as it should be and make sure the spring and guide are well-lubed as well.
Good luck!
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Hi FireBreather01,
Your suggestion of manual cycling the slide a few hundred times got me thinking. Would this not prematurely weaken the spring that Karl recommends replacing every 250 rounds, or so? I have manually cycled the slide a few times myself to make sure it was well lubed, but I wonder if each of these cycles should be included in the recommended number of rounds fired before the slide is replaced.
Or is this another spring?
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Itguy - that's a good point and I suppose that yes, it could contribute somewhat to spring fatigue, but, if it helps to break the gun in then perhaps it is worth it? I suppose one could also cycle the slide without the spring just to 'mate' the parts together, especialy with the Flitz, and wear them in but for my money I would keep cycling the pistol as necessary and replace the spring after several hundred hand cycles + live firing - maybe 200 + 150 or something like that.
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Thanks firebreather.
I'll re-lube it well and give it another try. I'm hesitant to do the flitz thing though. Wouldn't it remove the anodizing from the rails?
If the fresh lube job doesn't help, I'll probably give rohrbaugh a call and see waht they say.
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should we really have to do this much tinkering witha $1000 firearm!? I just commited to buying one and the question keeps popping up in my head ...should I have waited for a later model???...just my thoughts..
Bob
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HD
I took my new R9 to the range a few days ago and had experienced the same problem. Bullet nosing up to top and above the chamber. However, this problem began after I had fired close to 50 rounds and the gun was very hot and dirty. I also noticed that the slide did not move as smoothly as early on when the gun was clean. I thought that the problem might be a function of the movement of the slide slowing down as the gun got progressively more dirty. I took it home and cleaned and relubed and will go back and try it again. I want to start to carry this pistol but want to feel comfortable with its ability to function flawlessly. BTW it did not occur as much as you experienced. I had it happen 5 times over about 30 rounds fired.
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If you just want to polish the rails, just apply the flitz and put the slide on the frame without the barrel or recoil spring assembly and proceed to cycle. You won't have the pressure of the spring to fight while working the slide, and you won't be doing anything to fatigue the spring that way. When you're done, clean and lube and reassemble.
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Bob, you should not have a lot of problems. Don't over worry about it. Get the gun, make sure it is lubed good and go out and shoot it. Try Gold Dot 115 or 124 gr. Tom
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Hmmm - LCP's prob' again it seems. Well for now shoot some more and just GD's if poss.
Like I said to LCP - hand rack slow to watch the feed characteristics just to see how much rounds tip up. I would not worry one bit about hand cycling and spring effects!!!
I have a theory tho haven't run it by Eric. I am wondering if initially the spring rate is effectively a bit high until it sets - such that slide is not fully going to max and so the fwd speed is reduced just a bit with fractionally reduced travel - and so the round stripping off mag is not chambered quite as fast, giving time for a tip-up.
Further break in could possibly see a fuller/faster slide excursion.
I am thinking out loud only - may be a loada horse puckey!
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Your spring theory sounds like a possible explantion.
I'll going to try all the suggestions I've gotten so far and hope the problem resolves itself.
Thanks.
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Now that I think about it, the spring did seem to soften a bit, it was very stiff when I first got the gun. In my case, I know it was the high thumb grip that was causing problems for me, but perhaps the spring does need a few rounds through it to let the slide get all the way back. Either way, you can tell it's a gun that isn't forgiving of limp-wristing.
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no limp wrists allowed!! Tom
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[size=13]
no limp wrists allowed!!
[/size]
Not even this one Tom! LOL ;D
(http://www.acbsystems.com/images/smilies/gay.gif)
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Thats funny Chris! Tom
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Chris:
I think I once boarded that guy out of the Army on a "Section Nine."
;D
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Haha - Richard - I didn't know you knew him! :o ;D ;D
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Harry- How did you make out on this? I'm curious to see if you are having better luck.
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I've been extremely busy lately so I haven't had a chance to even touch the R9 until today.
When I took it apart to clean it I noticed that there are significant wear marks on the inside of the frame rails around the area of the slide stop, maybe about 5/8" long. I assume it's from the barrel. The anodizing is completely worn off and the area feels rough. This is after one range session and 70 rounds through the gun. Maybe this had something to do with my FTF problem, I don't know.
In any case, I don't recall anyone else mentioning this, and I assume it's not normal.
Should I call Rohrbaugh or should I go to the range and shoot it some more?
I took some lousy photos of it but I don't know how to attach them here. I can email them to someone if they think that might help with a diagnosis.
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Hmmm. I now see that there have been others with this wear "problem". I'm curious to know if the wear has stopped or if it has progressed as you run more ammo through the gun. Has anyone asked Eric or Karl about it?
Also, I'm assuming that most guns do not have this wear issue. If that's the case, it would seem that something is amiss with the ones that do.
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Did you listen to this message?
http://members.cox.net/datan42/KR.mp3
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It was from this thread on frame wear.
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1120281702
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Thanks, Dave. I now remember reading about the wear on the frame rails.
Looks like most everyone feels it should be OK.
I continue to be confident Eric and Karl would fix any defects in material.
Bill
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As I think I mentioned on the other thread - IMO (and taking into account Eric's venerable demo R9) - it is self-limiting and for me no more than a consequence of very tight tolerancing - which overlooked quite the degree to which the barrel lock/unlock cycle can affect that area - initially!
I certainly am quite comfortable with my own rationale on that.
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I believe Chris is right. There is a certain amount of wear on anything when 2 parts move on each other. Even wheel guns have drag marks on the cylinder.
We all want our pup to stay new, however, it is a defense gun pure and simple.
Tom
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Thanks for posting the links. I knew I had read about this problem before but was unable to find it after a half hour of searching.
My barrel appears to be "updated" since it is slightly rounded at the bottom rear of the chamber. My guide rod is also beveled. I thought those updates were supposed to eliminate this problem? It's a bit disconcerting that my gun, which should be the very latest version, has the problem. And it puzzles me as to why some guns exibit this wear and others don't. Is there an explanation for that?
Brian, has yours shown any of this wear after the updates were made to your gun?
Chris, you said, “I have had contact with Eric but - he would ask that folks wait for an analysis to be made which should be soon.” Did he ever follow up with you on that?
Anyway, I guess it's something I can live with as long as I can get the gun to work reliably, which is the next thing I need to work on.
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Harry - I have not chatted with Eric since we had dinner together - weeks ago. I hesitate to call him too much as he is one busy fella.
But in fact I am overdue to catch up on odd morcels such as this so will try and speak with him soon.
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Thanks Chris.
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I finally got the chance to shoot my R9 again. I cleaned and relubed it as per the instructions prior to going to the range.
I shot 50 rounds and they were all Winchester white box FMJ.
Out of the 50 rounds I got 5 FTF, on rounds 14, 19, 24, 36 and 47 and it didn't matter which mag I used.
That's no better than the last range session when I got 6 or 7 FTF out of 70 rounds fired.
The wear on the inside of the frame rails didn't appear to progress any further this time, so at least that's one good thing.
I now have 120 rounds through the gun and it is averaging a FTF every 10 rounds. I don't really think it's a break-in issue, so I guess it's time to give Rohrbaugh a call and see what they say. I really hate shipping my guns out but I guess I have no choice. :'(
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Very sorry to hear that Harry - and puzzled too.
It won't help any except my curiosity - what nature of FTF's?? Were these those ones that come up too high and nose into top of chamber to jam?
Speak to Maria first and see if she can get Karl to speak to you - so you can describe the problem.
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Chris - yes, all of the failures were the nose of the bullet jammed up against the top of the chamber. I'll definitely give Maria a call. I want this gun to work out for me.