The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: bobvvp on November 01, 2005, 02:22:00 PM
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Just received my R9s and am very impressed. Thanks to all the folks who have shared their experience and suggestions in forum as I had the advantage of reading them before my first trip to the range and subsequent cleaning experience. This is my first attempt at a forum so I apologize if I am not using it correctly and would welcome suggestions and directions.
I cleaned the bore of the R9s and then tried the various ammunitions that folks had discussed. Speer, Hornady, Federal and Blazer all seemed to work just fine. I tried about 10 to 15 rounds of each. When I then loaded the Remington Golden Saber 124 grain Brass Jacketed Hollow Pt., GS9MMB, the hammer would strike, but the rounds would not fire. I examined the primer and found a very slight indentation off to the side. I then tried a few rounds of the other ammos again and they worked fine. I did not examine the primers on the successfully fired ammo. I have since disassembled the gun and cleaned it. Any thoughts before I hit the range again? I know some forum discussion has stated a preference for Golden Saber and I am curious what might be the cause for my experience. Thanks
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Welcome Bob - see you just signed up :)
If you haven;t already done so - take a browse thru my FAQ site - plus button links to tests stuff. I have gone thru most types of ammo we discuss - tho yet a few sundry ones to try one day.
Assuming Rem uses Rem primers then I reckon a hardness factor could apply. Fed primers have always been my choice for reloading as they are the softest - CCI's by contrast were always the hardest. I would not expect the pup's pin strike to be particularly weak at all - but if a primer is harder and maybe even seated a thou or two deeper - could be a prob - of course one good thing with a DAO gun - just pull trigger again and usually that would fire the round.
Primer indents after firing give little useful info really, other than for over-pressure signs. At moment of ignition and powder burn - the firing pin is still intertially ''present'' for an instant - so as case begins to try to move to rear against bolt face - it slams the primer against the pin, reseating it too because primer wants to come out under high pressure stage - thus often increasing the perceived indent.
Only way to really check out pin energy and strike deformation on a primer is to load a case with just a primer - if resized so it'll chamber then fire it - upset back onto pin will be small and actual indent will give some idea of impact energy.
I don't recall any Golden Saber misfires in my tests.
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Thanks for your thoughts on this. I had a chance to look thru more forum messages and did notice some folks had failures to fire with these. How do I get to the suggested area with your tests? I don't have my reloading equipment set up so I can't run the primer only test you suggested. Actually, when this first happened, I did try pulling the trigger repeatedly and the Golden Sabers just wouldn't fire. Every firearm seems to function best with certain ammo and things seemed to work particularly well with the Speer Gold Dots and Federals. Since I have put 50-60 rounds thru it and cleaned and lubed, it will be interesting to see if the Golden Saber will work as the first ammo next time at the range. I will end up sticking with the better functioning rounds, but find the Golden Saber experience interesting.
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Hmmm - no good even after second and further strikes eh - bad - can't remember that degree of trouble for anyone before but anywasy - one poor firing of a brand will turn me off it.
The FAQ link is in my sig line Bob ... follow that and the buttons on left will take you to test stuff - -plus i did some chrono data figures too - link for that too.
Let me know if any prob accessing that. I have a few other odd items to add sometime but hopefully you'll find odd scraps of interest.
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OK. Found your FAQ site. Great info. I agree with you on the reliability issue. In the carry situation I will stick with what works. At the range my curiosity may get the better of me. Just acquired some RBCD I am anxious to try. I'll save the Gold Sabers for my Glock. It will shoot anything.
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bobvvp,
I've had trouble with Remington UMC yellow box practice ammo in my R9S.
Exactly same as you described: Shiny spot on primer but no indentation. Both the rounds that failed to fire did go "bang" on the second time thru. I guess Remington uses the same primers for all their handgun applications.
My conclusion was also same as yours, hard primers.
Even the rounds that fired the first time looked like light primer strikes. Primers of Speer GDHPs fired at the same session looked normal.
The good news is "I saved a bunch of money on the 250 round Economy Pack." The bad news is it'll take me months to use up that junk. :P
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Welcome Bob, I'm fairly new here myself. This is a great site with many very nice people. I've also had trouble with light primer strikes in my R-9s. The last failure to fires I've had were with Remington/UMC 115 grain FMJ. The Speer 115 grain and CCI Blazer ammo seems to work well for me.
EdMan
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Thanks for the additional feedback on ammo performance. Makes me wonder if there are some specs for the firing pin and assembly that could be checked locally.
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bobvvp,
Welcome...
We shall get this sorted out!!
I have not tried the Rem GS..
WWB,Win.STHP,GD HP 115s all seem OK with mine.. :)
I will buy a box and see if they "ignite"..
Brenden
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Remington GS is the only round that does not always go off in my Rs. It must be the harder primer.
HiCap
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bobvvp, try Speer Gold Dot 124 gr JHP
Tom
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Thanks for all the additional feedback. Brenden, I will be curious to hear about your experiment. Our common experiences do seem to indicate the Remington primers are suspect here. As to the suggestion I try the Speer Gold Dot 124, those were the first rounds I fired in the R9s and it functioned flawlessly with them. I tried them right after the Remingtion ammo (ie within a matter of minutes without cleaning the firearm) and again the R9 functioned fine. Guess there is a reason it is one of the recommended ammos.
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bobvvp:
I've just returned to home base from a week of travel and haven't had a chance to welcome you to the Forum. I do so now.
I'm one of those who has been using the 147-grain Remington Golden Sabers in my R9. Although I haven't experienced any FTFs with the round, your report has certainly caught my attention. Please let us know what happens on your next range trip with the GS. (It may be time for me to break out the 124-grain Gold Dots which I have stored in the back of my gun safe.)
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Richard,
Thanks for your words of welcome and experience with Golden Saber. I will let you know the results if I try them again.
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Thanks for all the additional feedback. Brenden, I will be curious to hear about your experiment. Our common experiences do seem to indicate the Remington primers are suspect here. As to the suggestion I try the Speer Gold Dot 124, those were the first rounds I fired in the R9s and it functioned flawlessly with them. I tried them right after the Remingtion ammo (ie within a matter of minutes without cleaning the firearm) and again the R9 functioned fine. Guess there is a reason it is one of the recommended ammos.
Tried to find some of these..
No luck at 2 places.. :(
Will try this weekend-I am very curious!!
Brenden
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Back to the range yesterday with a cleaned gun to try out the ammo again. Tried six rounds each of the following in the indicated order: RBCD 60 gr. TFSP, GoldDot 124 gr. GDHP, Federal Premium 124 gr. Hydra-Shok JHP, CCI Blazer Brass 115 gr. FMJ, Remington Golden Saber 124 gr. BJHP. All functioned perfectly the exception of the Golden Saber. One round out of six required two trigger pulls to fire. I then fired another dozen of the Blazer with no problems. Fired the rest of the box of Golden Sabers without problem.
Went home and was preparing to clean the gun when I noticed the slide is cracked along the rear portion of the left side (as one holds the gun to fire). The crack runs for about 1/2 inch along the side and around the back. I have not disassembled further as I want to return it to Rohrbaugh in such a way they can do it themselves and get some idea of the failure mode. I notice other folks have reported slide cracks so I will post this information there as well for them. My serial number is in the mid R900's.
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Bob,
I'm sorry to hear about the cracked slide. It's still more shocking news.
Bill
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Bob:
I'm sure the factory will make it right, but [expletive deleted] that is a real bummer! Good luck, and please keep us informed.
Meanwhile, I think I'll unload the Golden Sabers and plug in the Gold Dots.
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Thanks folks. I will try to get some photos posted in the forum thread that deals with this. Jarcher helped another member with this and I see if I can impose on him to help me as well.
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Hi everyone,
I just got my R9S 2 days ago (serial R68x).
I took it to the range this morning to try out a couple of different loads and had the same problem with the 124 gr Golden Sabers. I only ran 20 rounds of the GS through it, but had 1 failure to fire with a very light primer strike. The dent in the primer was barely there. I chambered the round again and it fired without issue.
All the other ammo (WWB, Federal EFMJ, Gold Dots) had deep primer impacts.
I was very concerned at the time, but now that I read that it's one type of ammo, I feel much better. I guess I'll stick to the Gold Dots.
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I use Winchester ST's whci work just fine, and are a good load. I bought some 115 gr. GD's and shot one box through the Rs and wound the recoil a lot more than with anything else I have fired. No, they were not +P's.
HiCap
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As you may know from my previous notes I was having problems with Golden Saber and then the slide cracked. Just returned the firearm to Rohrbaugh and got a call from Eric Rohrbaugh this morning assuring me they would take care of the problem. He said he had an idea regarding the failure to fire that he would look into as well. I certainly am favorably impressed with my interactions with the company.
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bobvvp,
I was also very impressed with the way the Rohrbaugh brothers handled the cracked slide problem with my R-9. Before the slide replacement I was having many failures to fire. Now with the new slide I have only had a few failure to fires, all with UMC/Remington ammo.
Ed
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Just curious folks; the recommended ammo is Speer GDHP
124 gr.. Why bother with anything else? I just don't get
all this experimentation and dissapointment. Some things
are worth tweaking and some are not; I do not intend to
shoot anything but those GDHP's.
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I just received my R9s with the cracked slide back and reported on my very favorable experience in the thread that deals with that topic. The comment about Gold Dots being recommended got me curious and I went back to the information that came with the firearm and see no recommendation for any specific brand. I know Seecamp was very specific with their product. Other than this forum, has anything ever been published on this? It seems it would be valuable for every owner to receive along with the product. My personal experience, conversations with Karl, and the input of other forum members, has convinced me to stick with products with soft primers and that doesn't include Remington. I also learned from Karl that if one applies a long, slow trigger pull, there may be more of a chance of a problem with ammo already prone to that sort of issue. I still think the R9 and the folks behind it are outstanding.
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I also learned from Karl that if one applies a long, slow trigger pull, there may be more of a chance of a problem with ammo already prone to that sort of issue. I still think the R9 and the folks behind it are outstanding.
Did he mention anything about a trigger pull method that you might use?
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This forum is the only place that I have found ammo recommendations.
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Quite a few threads about what has 'worked' for some/most!!
Chris's FAQ site has a LOT of info too..
http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/rohrbaugh/
bobvvp-hope your pup runs great for you now!!!
Brenden
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My best answer to harrydog's question is that Karl emphasized that this firearm was designed to be used in high stress situations where long slow pulls probably wouldn't be the norm. Also, yes Chris' site does have good info. It would be great if every purchaser knew about it.