The Rohrbaugh Forum

Miscellaneous => The Water Cooler -- General Discussions => Topic started by: FloridaCCW on October 30, 2010, 06:49:53 PM

Title: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: FloridaCCW on October 30, 2010, 06:49:53 PM
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9mmluger.html
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: tracker on October 30, 2010, 07:12:58 PM

What conclusions do you draw from these data?
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on October 30, 2010, 07:57:59 PM
Quote
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9mmluger.html

CCW.  Good information.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: FloridaCCW on October 30, 2010, 08:05:19 PM
Quote
What conclusions do you draw from these data?


Still looking it over, but it Looks like +P ammo does not make much of a difference in 2-3 in barrels. The .32 versus .380 data is interesting in short barrels.
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: yankee2500 on October 30, 2010, 08:09:18 PM
I's always been my thought that +P would do little more than a standard pressure round in a 3" barrel.

John
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: yankee2500 on October 30, 2010, 08:19:09 PM
I thought there may be a little more difference in the short barrel rounds than there was but it is better than standard ammo.

John
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: tracker on October 30, 2010, 08:23:22 PM

~200 fps is quite a difference between the +P and standard in a 3 " barrel.
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: FloridaCCW on October 30, 2010, 08:41:51 PM
FPS can be misleading though when it comes to a wound profile. Be nice if they looked at how the FPS energy transferred to something    :)
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: yankee2500 on October 30, 2010, 08:55:38 PM
Here are the real apples to apples comparison straight from the Speere site.
  The short barrel 124 gr ammo is listed as +P and is no faster than the standard pressure 124gr Gold Dot and slower than the non short barrel 124 gr +P. And has the same muzzle energyas the standard Gold Dots.
(There test barrel is 4")


Gold Dot Short Barrel Personal Protection - 9mm Luger +P
Part Number      Cartridge
Bullet Wt.      Bullet Type       Box Count      Bullet Coefficient
23611      9mm Luger +P      124      GDHP-SB      20      0.134

Velocity(in feet per second) (foot pounds of energy)
Muzzle ------------------------Muzzle      
1150 --------------------------364      


Gold Dot Personal Protection - 9mm Luger +P
Part Number      Cartridge
Bullet Wt.      Bullet Type       Box Count      Bullet Coefficient
23617      9mm Luger +P      124      GDHP      20      0.134

Velocity(in feet per second) (foot pounds of energy)
Muzzle ------------------------Muzzle      
1220 --------------------------410


Gold Dot Personal Protection - 9mm Luger
Part Number      Cartridge
Bullet Wt.      Bullet Type       Box Count      Bullet Coefficient
23618      9mm Luger      124      GDHP      20      0.134

Velocity(in feet per second) (foot pounds of energy)      
Muzzle ------------------------Muzzle
1150 --------------------------364  

Here is the link to the Speere site.

http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx   


John
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: FloridaCCW on October 30, 2010, 09:03:57 PM
Good info
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on October 30, 2010, 09:11:59 PM
I've read somewhere that in a short barrel the +P bullet is unable to reach its full velocity potential so, therefore, is a waste, so to speak; in the 124 gr. +P bullet full potential being 1220 fps.

And John.  Good information, as well.
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: tracker on October 30, 2010, 09:20:49 PM

It we could use the +P in the R9 I would go with the 410 ft/lbs vs. 364 in a carry situation but that is a moot point. There is at least a 10 per cent difference in a 3" barrel between the two.
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on October 30, 2010, 09:33:24 PM
Yep!  No use discussing the +P for the R9.    ;)
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: Reinz on October 31, 2010, 10:42:29 AM
Quote
I've read somewhere that in a short barrel the +P bullet is unable to reach its full velocity potential so, therefore, is a waste, so to speak; in the 124 gr. +P bullet full potential being 1220 fps.

And John.  Good information, as well.


KJ is correct.


This is the whole key here.

It depends upon which particular cartridge you are using because it MAINLY depends upon if ALL  of the powder  has enough time to get burned while that bullet is traveling down that short barrel  to acheive it's full potential velocity.


Fortunately with newer powders/blend, the newer ammo put out today does a better job in shorter barrel guns.
Used to, +P was not worth a hill of bean in a 4 " gun.  Now they seem ot be working pretty well.  Is + p   ready for 3" yet ? or sub 3". Maybe, maybe not, but I think they are doing a good job working their way down.
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: yankee2500 on October 31, 2010, 11:55:42 AM
It becomes a catch 22 situation, the faster the powder burns the more pressure it creates. So trying to push a bullet faster in a short barrel without going into a +P situation is a difficult task.
  You wouldn't believe how much unburned powder is on the floor at an indoor range.

John
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on October 31, 2010, 12:43:35 PM
Quote
It becomes a catch 22 situation, the faster the powder burns the more pressure it creates. So trying to push a bullet faster in a short barrel without going into a +P situation is a difficult task.
  You wouldn't believe how much unburned powder is on the floor at an indoor range.

John

I'm sure that's why the author of the article I read calls it a waste using the +P bullet in a 2 - 3 inch barrel.  
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: tracker on October 31, 2010, 12:52:01 PM

Three inches appears to be the tipping point; anything much less than 3 is wasted, for now at least, but there is gain at 3 and above, such as the Kahr CW9, for example, which is 3.6".
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on October 31, 2010, 12:57:13 PM
Good point, tracker.  The Boberg Shorty will be able to shoot the +P round and its barrel is 3.35 inches.
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: tracker on October 31, 2010, 01:02:35 PM

And, as well, the Glock 26 at 3.46" can handle the +P and its additional performance to some degree.
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on October 31, 2010, 01:05:26 PM
More good news.  I gotta get another Glock!  Still liking that Glock 33!  
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: yankee2500 on October 31, 2010, 01:39:25 PM
I would skip the G-26 and go to the G-27 same size but more punch without a +P round and still the option of the +P 40 caliber.

John
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: tracker on October 31, 2010, 02:00:59 PM
I don't disagree with you except for the relative abundance and lower cost of .9mm. A police instructor I met at Academy Sporting Goods showed me his CCW, a Glock 27, outside  the store that had a frame modification by Dale Hunnicutt who does grip reduction work, among other things. It really felt good to hold compared to a stock Glock.


http://www.gripreductions.com/
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: FloridaCCW on October 31, 2010, 02:32:41 PM
Quote
More good news.  I gotta get another Glock!  Still liking that Glock 33!  


I have a 19 and a 26 and I am now trying to decide between the 27 and 33. May just get the 27 and then get the .357 conversion for it. .357 ammo is not that easy to find locally either.
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on October 31, 2010, 03:10:51 PM
I really like the Glock 33, so seems the 27 will be next.
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: yankee2500 on October 31, 2010, 04:13:27 PM
Quote
I don't disagree with you except for the relative abundance and lower cost of .9mm. A police instructor I met at Academy Sporting Goods showed me his CCW, a Glock 27, outside  the store that had a frame modification by Dale Hunnicutt who does grip reduction work, among other things. It really felt good to hold compared to a stock Glock.

http://www.gripreductions.com/



   During the recent ammo crunch the one caliber I could always find was 40 S&W, that is what prompted me to purchase the Kahr PM40.
  There is not much price difference between 9mm & 40 S&W ammo, for Gold Dot LE  on a 500 round case the 9mm is $244.95 and the 40 S&W is $254.95 @ Ammo to Go even the per box price is $1

John
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on October 31, 2010, 04:40:29 PM
Another good choice.
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: tracker on October 31, 2010, 06:33:32 PM
John,
You're right; prices are coming down dramatically since I last purchased any pistol ammo. There was a spell here where .9mm became available and .40 couldn't be found anyplace.
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on November 03, 2010, 01:26:27 PM
Quote
I really like the Glock 33, so seems the 27 will be next.

Well, I've decided the Glock 27 isn't the one; so back to the drawing board.    ;)
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: yankee2500 on November 03, 2010, 09:03:13 PM
Maybe you should look at the Kahr 40s they have models with metal frames and polymer frames.

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_40sw.html

John
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on November 03, 2010, 09:12:47 PM
John.  Decided I didn't need the .40 caliber.
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: yankee2500 on November 03, 2010, 09:18:17 PM
kj,
   I hear ya, although I really like the PM40 small, light and packs a pretty good punch.

John
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on November 03, 2010, 09:21:53 PM
John.  I have the .454; packs a bigger punch!    ;D
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: yankee2500 on November 03, 2010, 09:39:45 PM
I know, I sold my 454, I enjoyed it while I had it but just didn't have a practical need for it. When I asked myself if I could live without it, well I guess you know the answer.

John
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on November 03, 2010, 10:09:40 PM
I tend not to ask myself that question on something I really want; not regretted getting the .454 as now I have two; and you're right; no practical reason to have them, but.............I do like the power!    :D
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: Reinz on November 04, 2010, 03:42:01 PM
Quote
When I asked myself if I could live without it, well I guess you know the answer.

John


A true Gun Addict never, I repeat , NEVER, asks himself THAT question.   ;D
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on November 04, 2010, 03:48:00 PM
Depends on the gun!    ;D
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: Reinz on November 04, 2010, 03:58:08 PM
Quote
Depends on the gun!    ;D

Must be reformed, or detoxed.   ;D
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on November 04, 2010, 03:59:47 PM
I'm in!    :D  
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: yankee2500 on November 04, 2010, 06:31:50 PM
Quote


A true Gun Addict never, I repeat , NEVER, asks himself THAT question.   ;D


   I learned that from kj.  ;D ;D

John
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on November 04, 2010, 07:00:00 PM
YEA!    ;D    ;D
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: tracker on November 06, 2010, 03:54:30 PM

I checked a large retail store today and WWB 115 gr. 9mm was $14 a box vs. the same in .40 was $20 a box for 50. The online sites bring the two closer together in comparative pricing.
Title: Re: Barrel Length and Chronograph Data
Post by: kjtrains on November 06, 2010, 04:41:47 PM
Good price for WWB 115 gr. and the .40 as well.